MVC Tournament

smidge34 · March 05, 2023, 06:09:16 PM

https://twitter.com/nealbradley/status/1632472427589517317

ERacerHead · March 06, 2023, 08:38:29 AM

Lunardi has #12 Drake playing a #5 Miami in the Midwest. I know which 12-5 upset I'm picking.

wkeown · March 06, 2023, 11:25:26 AM

So now I am having a real difficult time believing the move to the MVC was that much more beneficial. That projected #12 seed by more than one beat writer is just awful and not really any better than what we would have had if we had stayed in the OVC and won it all. Reputation and brand (although it shouldn't) has always had as much to do with seeding as any other factor and our brand was forged in the OVC. If SEMO pulls off a first round upset, then the sinking OVC ship gets righted awfully fast. If Drake loses their first round game, then it is hard to argue that the MVC move was better for us.

However, my eyeball test tells me that Drake could be a potential Sweet 16 team. They are big, strong, play smart and are as lengthy as many P6 teams. I certainly think that Drake is more than capable of beating Miami.

atlantaracer · March 06, 2023, 11:54:04 AM

OVC this year is a 16 seed. If we had won the OVC this year, I doubt that we would have been higher than 14, maybe a 15. That's the destiny of the OVC from here on out.

MVC will be a 13 or higher every year.

Staying in the OVC would cause recruiting to dry up. Plus, the home schedule would be awful. I can't imagine wanting to buy a season ticket when your best game is vs morehead or Semo, with an occasional siu or wku in there.

I think it was the right move, particularly once Belmont left. No upside to the OVC conference.

We won't dance as often, but hopefully our dances will be more meaningful. And the tournament in St. Louis was very good basketball. I plan to make the 9 hour trip next year.

mojoliet · March 06, 2023, 01:15:06 PM

Quote from: wkeown on March 06, 2023, 11:25:26 AMSo now I am having a real difficult time believing the move to the MVC was that much more beneficial. That projected #12 seed by more than one beat writer is just awful and not really any better than what we would have had if we had stayed in the OVC and won it all. Reputation and brand (although it shouldn't) has always had as much to do with seeding as any other factor and our brand was forged in the OVC. If SEMO pulls off a first round upset, then the sinking OVC ship gets righted awfully fast. If Drake loses their first round game, then it is hard to argue that the MVC move was better for us.

However, my eyeball test tells me that Drake could be a potential Sweet 16 team. They are big, strong, play smart and are as lengthy as many P6 teams. I certainly think that Drake is more than capable of beating Miami.

The 11-seeds are all at-larges. The 12-seeds are the best of the non-at-larges and in no way "awful" - 12-seeds win over 36% of the time.

SEMO is 244 in NET and projected for the play-in game against Fairleigh Dickinson. Murray is 214 in NET. UNC Asheville (139 NET) and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (188 NET) are projected as 16-seeds - so if you got your wish - you'd be in the First Four play-in game.

RacerSurveyor · March 06, 2023, 01:27:19 PM

It's getting hard to keep up with some of these school conference realignments, NIL deals, and transfer portal opportunities (and losses). But, in the long term I'm glad Murray State is associated with near-peer opponents in a basketball-centric conference.

IMO, I think it will take roughly 3 seasons before the Racers make it back to the Dance. I hope I'm wrong but I think our current coaching staff still needs to figure out how to navigate the new reality of D1 BBall.

Speaking of realignments, it seems that even with NMSU being out for the rest of the season, somehow the WAC is ranked #11 compared to the Valley's #15 according to Warren Nolan Conf. Rankings, which is great for Sam Houston and SFAustin for their first year... I think. I know they were associated with Southland in previous seasons and comparatively that conference is right behind OVC. It's somewhat like Belmont and Murray leaving for something better at the same time.

smidge34 · March 06, 2023, 02:39:40 PM

We just completed a fun season in a fun league of teams who are closer to our program's stature than anybody left in the OVC. I can't believe I'm reading somebody questioning that smh.

wkeown · March 06, 2023, 04:29:43 PM

Can't say I totally agree. Drake is a very, very good team and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they get to the Sweet 16. I am talking perception here.

All I know is that as a representative of the OVC, Murray has gone to the tourney as a 5 and a 7 seed in the past. So it wasn't that the OVC was holding us back.

Our move to the MVC was predicated as much or more because APSU, EKU, Jax State and Belmont were moving on. Not because we were deserving a better brand of basketball. We just didn't want to hang around to be "King of the Dipsh*ts" - which btw, those "dipsh*ts" were kicking our asses on the regular in football.

No one outside our sphere feels much about the MVC. Murray joining the MVC for basketball wasn't a jump for us - it was hardly even a bump. SIU students stormed the court, for God Sakes, just for beating us on their home floor.

Our record last year was gaudy, but it was against a lot of bad teams. But there we were as a 7-seed with only one victory over a team that was barely ranked at the time. That is my point. Our reputation as Murray State had begun to influence the opinions of the committee about Murray State - not the OVC. The brand was probably worth a one-seed jump just because of the reputation of our program - all earned in the OVC and our multiple NCAA appearances.

So don't blame me if I occasionally question if the move to the MVC really helped Murray State grow as a program. It's a legit question for consideration that will come up time and again if we don't begin dominating this conference like we did the OVC.

atlantaracer · March 06, 2023, 04:56:32 PM

Wke

I agree with many of your posts, but disagree with this thought.

The team last year beat memphis at memphis, beat a strong utc team and stayed with auburn with no bad losses. It was ranked in the top 20. Still got a 7 seed.

A record like that even with 2 or 3 losses in conference and a top 20 ranking in the MVC would get a 4 or 5 seed.

I think it was the best of all alternatives. But regardless, the ship has sailed and there is no going back. No reason to question the move.

But I for one plan to enjoy better competition.

ERacerHead · March 06, 2023, 05:03:09 PM

While you are making some valid points wkeown, the move is made and our only option is too look ahead. There is zero chance that we'll ever return to the OVC. Besides, like smidge said, this is a fun conference to be a part of. I had I actually agree with a lot if what you are saying, I just prefer being happy with where we are rather than regret leaving where we were. Going to have to readjust my values though and appreciate the regular season games more since post season appearances will likely be much less frequent.

bjhracer · March 06, 2023, 06:50:51 PM

We may not dominate the MVC but we will be competitive sooner rather than later. Next year to 3 finish and May compete for the title. We will see what Prohm can do I'm confident the Murray state brand will be a leader in the MVC very soon. We aren't a middle of the pack school, we don't have middle of the pack tradition. We will be at the top or near the top most years. As a result of that I predict more post season appearances than we had in the OVC.

smidge34 · March 06, 2023, 07:23:16 PM

When we've been good, which has been a LOT, we have been better than any team in the MVC, last year perfect example. Hell, Belmont too. I had some SIU moron on the MVC board ask me when was the last time we beat SIU. Well dummy, we don't play every year lol, you dodged us last season in our top-25 year. I remember beating them nearly 30 points at their place the last season before the Chinese Commie Loving Wuhan Flu hit. Heck man, we replaced 12 scholarship players and a coaching staff and still finished middle of the pack. We will be fine. Sure, we won't compete for the title in our down years like we did a LOT in the OVC, but that's a good thing imho. We need reps who will win games besides us and I think we are here.

evvracerfan · March 06, 2023, 07:28:26 PM

Quote from: wkeown on March 06, 2023, 04:29:43 PMAll I know is that as a representative of the OVC, Murray has gone to the tourney as a 5 and a 7 seed in the past. So it wasn't that the OVC was holding us back.

That OVC no longer exists. If you think we're getting a 5 or 7 seed - even with one of our historically best teams - playing in a league where the next best program is ranked in the mid to upper 200's - you're kidding yourself. The top half of the OVC left and was replaced by 2 Division 2 move up programs and a bottom feeder D1 program. Staying in the OVC was no longer an option once EKU, JSU, Peay and Belmont left - it's a crappy league that is destined to never get a seed above 15 ever again. Only one 16 seed has ever won a game, and only a handful of #15 seeds have ever won a game. Belmont and Murray gave the OVC a veneer of respectability, but the mid-level core of the league was lost when those other programs left. Now the former bottom feeders (SIUE, TN Tech, TN State, UTM, EIU, etc.) are the new core of the league, and most of those programs are committed to NOT improving their facilities or programs. No thanks.

smidge34 · March 06, 2023, 07:37:38 PM

"No brainer" keeps popping into my head. Exactly what it was.

mojoliet · March 06, 2023, 08:47:43 PM

Quote from: wkeown on March 06, 2023, 04:29:43 PMSIU students stormed the court, for God Sakes, just for beating us on their home floor.

It's an SIU tradition where the student section comes onto the floor and takes a picture/selfie with the team after a win. It's not opponent-dependent — they're going on the floor if it's a win over #25 or #325.