What's up in the Valley!

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Sycamorefan96
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by Sycamorefan96 »

mojoliet wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:54 pm This is the guy who reported all the WAC/ASUN realignment before any of the big wigs. He’s hearing WIU to OVC.

I've been trying to tell them this for weeks. :D
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by evvracerfan »

VUGrad1314 wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:05 am Another thing to consider is this: If charter members like EKU and Murray State can A: Leave the conference outright (EKU) or B: get wandering eyes (Murray State) And longstanding members like Austin Peay be involved in serious rumors of leaving why can't or shouldn't a Johnny Come Lately like Belmont?
I really wonder what their administration thinks. Byrd probably had the gravitas to kill any possible move several years ago, but I highly doubt a 2nd or 3rd year coach will have nearly as much influence on a decision this big whether he is for or against a potential move.

I would like to think Belmont wouldn't be thrilled with the addition of a perennial bottom feeder like WIU that expands the geographic footprint while dragging the conference rankings down further. The likely departure of Murray State and Austin Peay will radically re-shape the conference as Belmont and the Bottom Feeders (sounds like a '60's music group) if Belmont remains behind. Are they going to be OK with that or not?
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by VUGrad1314 »

evvracerfan wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:05 am
VUGrad1314 wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:05 am Another thing to consider is this: If charter members like EKU and Murray State can A: Leave the conference outright (EKU) or B: get wandering eyes (Murray State) And longstanding members like Austin Peay be involved in serious rumors of leaving why can't or shouldn't a Johnny Come Lately like Belmont?
I really wonder what their administration thinks. Byrd probably had the gravitas to kill any possible move several years ago, but I highly doubt a 2nd or 3rd year coach will have nearly as much influence on a decision this big whether he is for or against a potential move.

I would like to think Belmont wouldn't be thrilled with the addition of a perennial bottom feeder like WIU that expands the geographic footprint while dragging the conference rankings down further. The likely departure of Murray State and Austin Peay will radically re-shape the conference as Belmont and the Bottom Feeders (sounds like a '60's music group) if Belmont remains behind. Are they going to be OK with that or not?
As a fan of the MVC and of mid major basketball in general I really hope not. I really hope they will strive for more. But if they aren't I would really like to see the MVC add Murray State anyway and maybe try to pry South Dakota State away if they can't get Belmont. Frankly I'd be cool with a Murray\Belmont\SDSU\NDSU super package and going to divisional play but that has some potential pitfalls even though it does add a LOT of quality to the league. We'd be talking 3 perennial (or near-perennial top 100 programs (or better) and another high upside addition in NDSU who has a resume of its own having beaten Oklahoma in the NCAA Tournament back in 2014 as well as posting numerous strong seasons besides that one. I feel like most years that would add many Q1 and Q2 games that would be important as the MVC strives to be a multibid conference again. I feel like these additions would make conference play matter even more and also allow the MVC to visit the top 25 far more frequently. The only problem would be getting the schools to be okay with the extra travel and getting the private schools to be okay with an uneven split.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by mojoliet »

There is no interest from MVC schools to add Dakota schools.

There is no interest from MVC schools to go to 14.

If the MVC ever expands, it would only be to 12.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by evvracerfan »

I've never understood the public/private poop flinging match the MVC discussions always turn into? Belmont is a private school but I've never heard it brought up in our discussions - although them not having to support a football program is something that is mentioned from time to time. I would hope if the MVC decides to add members things like quality of the program, facilities, tradition, fan base, geography, potential rivalries, etc., would all be a lot more important than whether the school was public or private. If it isn't then the MVC is focusing on the wrong things.

I think the days of the MVC consistently getting multiple NCAA bids are over, other than the rare "perfect storm" scenario - and I doubt any single team you could add is going to dramatically change that. The power guys don't want us crashing their party and leaving with some of what they view as "their" cash. To me the reason to add better teams is to improve the seeding of the conference automatic qualifier, improve the number of NIT bids, increase the overall conference exposure and attendance. There's a big difference between a 14/15 seed and a 11/12 seed.

I know from personal experience I have a five hour round trip to go see the Racers play at home, and we're not making that drive to see us play SIUE or Western Illinois. We are, however, making the trip today to see the Racers play Belmont. Going forward we're looking at half of the OVC being ranked near or below the 300 level on a consistent basis, and that's just not interesting to me. We traded 2 programs worth watching for 2 programs that more than likely won't be.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by sparekracer »

I'm not a football fan. Don't follow Murray State football, college football, professional football, or any football, so I'm sure I don't understand all the economics of football.

I just don't see the point of these lower tiered schools focusing on football. Is the money really there? Does EKU, JSU, Western Kentucky, etc all believe that they can compete with the power 5 conferences? The Alabamas, the Georgias, the Clemsons? Or are they chasing fool's gold? This to me looks a lot like the current ESPN issues. ESPN thought themselves to be all big and mighty because they had so many subscribers... until people started cutting the cord and removing ESPN. ESPN had a lot of subscribers, but not a lot of watchers. Moving to FBS might look good, until people realize that folks are only going to follow the major power 5 conferences and the big name football schools.

With JSU and EKU leaving the OVC, if I were Murray State - I'd look to move, create, or remodel the OVC into a basketball-centric conference. Basketball has more value for these lower tiered schools than football (at least in my opinion). The parity in basketball is much greater than it is in football. You've got Gonzaga that's risen out from the mid-major ranks. Butler had their hayday. Even Creighton and Dayton. Before the football season even starts, who is going to be the champion? (Alabama) Or at the very least who is going to be in the CFP? I don't think you have that in basketball. Sure, the NCAA tournament winner probably isn't going to be one of these lower-tiered schools - but you often do not know who that winner is going to be before the season starts, and it's much more likely that a lower tiered school will have a run through the tournament (see SIU several years ago, Loyola just a few years ago) and that brings name recognition to the school and the conference.

If I were Murray (and Belmont, and Austin Peay) I'd be looking to make a move - whatever that move is - that helps to gain an at-large bid in the NCAA tournament. If that means a move to MVC, then so be it. If that means adding basketball schools into the OVC, then so be it. If that means creating a new basketball-centric conference (kind of a mid-major Big East), then so be it. I'm not saying you have to shutdown football entirely. If member schools want to play football, that's fine by me. But your bread and butter is going to be basketball.

That's what makes sense to me.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by evvracerfan »

sparekracer wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:23 am
With JSU and EKU leaving the OVC, if I were Murray State - I'd look to move, create, or remodel the OVC into a basketball-centric conference. Basketball has more value for these lower tiered schools than football (at least in my opinion). The parity in basketball is much greater than it is in football.
Agree 100%. I love football and don't want to see the Racer football program go away - a school loses a lot when a major program is eliminated. But basketball is the program that should drive the athletic decisions in schools at our level. I don't think you can remodel the OVC - there are too many horrible basketball programs and you can't just kick them out. SIUE, UTM, EIU, SEMO, TSU - none of those programs have the facilities/budget/fan base/commitment level to sustain a D1 program that can consistently crack the top 200. The OVC has to be blown up and a new conference has to rise from those ashes if we're going to do something other than just join another conference. That would be my ideal scenario, although like I said early, maybe I should just wish for a unicorn.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by runningracer »

Even though they are recognized as FBS, there are going to be two divisions of FBS, unofficially. The money games for FCS schools will dry up, further, as the power 5 will schedule a Sunbelt, Western, Middle, or Eastern Kentucky, pre conference, as they will be able to be competitive, even though they will not win except once in a blue moon. That will eliminate a major revenue stream for most schools in the FCS division. making that level of football more expensive. The product will be diluted, and FCS will be a glorified DII, only costing more every year, due to scholarship cost not decreasing along with the drop in revenue. If you want to have football, there are choices, either move up, move down, or eliminate it all together. The cost of scholarships for FCS, along with title 9 costs, are about to get very expensive, without the major conference paydays.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by mojoliet »

Sycamorefan96 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:54 am I can understand JSU football and Murray basketball fans and the administrations wanting to seek greener pastures since most years those are top 2 OVC programs. The other schools though that complain about the OVC being awful, including EKU, are part of the problem. EKU is no longer a FCS power in football and it's because of them, not the OVC. They can change conferences and all, but they will still be the same mediocre EKU they are today unless they decide to actually try again.
I saw this video today and it does a good job summarizing why both jumped (start at 1:40 to shorten it a bit).

He talks about OVC politics (SIUE/UNA decision, NKU decision), EKU watching peers move to FBS while they just missed the cut, philosophical differences exposed by COVID, FB/athletic budgets. and JSU trading rural locations for more optimal recruiting territory. Basically, EKU/JSU are making a cultural/philosophical move for FB.

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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by Sycamorefan96 »

Not adding North Alabama was always a really stupid decision. SIUE has a nice campus, but they were just a bad add. I wasn't even aware of the "competitive balance" issue with NKU, but that's pretty low. They weren't concerned with Belmont's huge budget and them having a competitive edge?
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by VUGrad1314 »

Sycamorefan96 wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:34 pm Not adding North Alabama was always a really stupid decision. SIUE has a nice campus, but they were just a bad add. I wasn't even aware of the "competitive balance" issue with NKU, but that's pretty low. They weren't concerned with Belmont's huge budget and them having a competitive edge?
Moreover, who on Earth cares about that anyway if they can come in and make your league better? Even if Murray State and Belmont outspent every MVC program 3:1 I would still want them in the league if they wanted to join. Why? Because getting better is and should be the only thing that matters. If a program makes your league better add them; If they don't, don't add them. It's really simple.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

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Good game tonight between EKU and Jax St. Colonels pulled in off in OT and they’re freshman guard looked good down the stretch.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

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dbstepside wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:21 pm Good game tonight between EKU and Jax St. Colonels pulled in off in OT and they’re freshman guard looked good down the stretch.
22 points, 8 assists, 7 rebounds, 2 steals to only 1 turnover. Played all 40 minutes. Kid will probably play in the Association.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

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Watching Jax St play UTM and I can’t believe that Huffman is in college. That dude looks older than Lebron.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

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Do we have a single solitary journalist that covers us who has asked our AD what we plan to do or for a comment on the future of the conference and our program? You’d think a journalist worth their salt would be all over it and calling Casey Alexander and/or their AD too for comment. Has anybody grilled old Osh Kosh B’gosh? Bunch of softball throwers if you ask me.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

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Good point Smidge..We can be optimistic and think the press has been in contact and were told.."Be paitient, dont rile everyone up and create crazy speculation and rumors. We will have an upcoming anouncement soon on this."

I know this a fantasy but I cant think of another legitimate reason why this very current matter hasnt been addressed in what we used to call "the press." :sick:
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

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smidge34 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:24 pm Do we have a single solitary journalist that covers us who has asked our AD what we plan to do or for a comment on the future of the conference and our program? You’d think a journalist worth their salt would be all over it and calling Casey Alexander and/or their AD too for comment. Has anybody grilled old Osh Kosh B’gosh? Bunch of softball throwers if you ask me.
Saw where the Sun let Marlowe go and that’s a shame because I always enjoyed his articles and he actually seemed to research what he was talking about.

WPSD only seems to care when we win in the postseason. I like Bidwell and his tweets are right on, but if you just pull the article from the AP wire and post it on the station website it’s kinda lazy when you were at the game and are the major media platform.
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

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Image

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Re: What's up in the Valley!

Post by HoptownRacer »

smidge34 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:26 pm Image

^^^^ :clap: 8) :lol: :P :twisted: :thumbup: :wave: :wink: :D :) ^^^^
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Re: What's up in the Valley!

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SwedeDRC wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:38 pm Good point Smidge..We can be optimistic and think the press has been in contact and were told.."Be paitient, dont rile everyone up and create crazy speculation and rumors. We will have an upcoming anouncement soon on this."

I know this a fantasy but I cant think of another legitimate reason why this very current matter hasnt been addressed in what we used to call "the press." :sick:
And while Im at it, where is Beth? We havent herad from her. Is she on maternity leave? Got the covid? I bet she is playing the "silent secreet strategy plan" card. She is so smart..cant wait to see how this plays out! Well no..probably not.
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