Officials

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JessieWilliams
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Officials

Post by JessieWilliams » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:59 pm

What can get done to get some real refs and can all of these pretty boy want a bees? :goracers: :hey: :lets: :goracers: :goracers: :goracers: :goracers: :goracers:
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Re: Officials

Post by Rooster » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:46 am

So inconsistent, one time down the floor requires blood, next trip a look will get a foul. From what I seen, it pretty much across all conferences.
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Re: Officials

Post by msuowns » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:09 am

That was a foul game. They almost fouled out our entire team.
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Re: Officials

Post by Dan T » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:15 am

The foul totals for both teams may be a bit above average, but weren't particularly high. Ours were concentrated on the three big men until Daquan racked up several late.
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Re: Officials

Post by atlantaracer » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:46 am

43 fouls in 40 minutes is painful to watch. The fouls called on basic post up moves and normal fighting for position, touch fouls 30 feet from the basket, and minor contact that does not give a defender an advantage in Saturday night OVC games make it difficult for games to get any rhythm.

I watch almost every Racer game on ESPN+, and watch other conference games. Saturday OVC games with Murray almost always end in more fouls than minutes-and most of these games are not nearly as physical as other conference games. When watching replays on TV, there is often no or minimal contact on fouls both ways. Last night was no exception-phantom fouls on both teams.

It’s not entertaining basketball. The game last Saturday and this Saturday was ugly ugly TV.

I am a little bit with Dan T on the replay, but also agree with JoeD that it’s an officiating problem, not a fan problem. Unless we get better officiated games, we should not show replays.
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Re: Officials

Post by Dan T » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:59 pm

atlantaracer wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:46 am
43 fouls in 40 minutes is painful to watch. The fouls called on basic post up moves and normal fighting for position, touch fouls 30 feet from the basket, and minor contact that does not give a defender an advantage in Saturday night OVC games make it difficult for games to get any rhythm.

I watch almost every Racer game on ESPN+, and watch other conference games. Saturday OVC games with Murray almost always end in more fouls than minutes-and most of these games are not nearly as physical as other conference games. When watching replays on TV, there is often no or minimal contact on fouls both ways. Last night was no exception-phantom fouls on both teams.

It’s not entertaining basketball. The game last Saturday and this Saturday was ugly ugly TV.

I am a little bit with Dan T on the replay, but also agree with JoeD that it’s an officiating problem, not a fan problem. Unless we get better officiated games, we should not show replays.
"Touch fouls" 30 feet from the basket are almost entirely for putting hands on a dribbler, which is supposed to result in a foul call 100% of the time, a rule I heartily endorse. Putting your hands on a dribbler is for the purpose of controlling the dribbler's ability to go by the defender. IMO, the game is better for trying to eliminate such behavior.
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Re: Officials

Post by smidge34 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:43 pm

This isn’t 1957 though Mr T. The players don’t shoot granny style FTs, the lane isn’t 5 feet wide, Chucks aren’t the shoe style and the game isn’t called that way anymore. THANK GOD! I understand you disagree and that’s ok.
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Re: Officials

Post by Dan T » Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:57 pm

smidge34 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:43 pm
This isn’t 1957 though Mr T. The players don’t shoot granny style FTs, the lane isn’t 5 feet wide, Chucks aren’t the shoe style and the game isn’t called that way anymore. THANK GOD! I understand you disagree and that’s ok.
That's just a tad condescending, wouldn't you say? Is my age an issue for you? Does it make my opinion less worthy? To my knowledge, the rule about hand checking a dribbler is relatively new, as in the last year or so. It didn't exist in my youth. But what do I know. I'm so old that dementia has robbed me of the ability to think or remember.
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Re: Officials

Post by bjhracer » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:12 pm

Hand checks are allowed in the rule book as long as it isn’t with both hands and as long as you don’t leave your hand on the offensive player. Also reaching or feeling for a screen from a defender is allowed. Also a few years ago it became a rule that a post defender making incidental contact with a shooter should be a no call as long as the defender is verticals and his hands are verticals.
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Re: Officials

Post by jcruse64 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:27 pm

bjhracer wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:12 pm
Hand checks are allowed in the rule book as long as it isn’t with both hands and as long as you don’t leave your hand on the offensive player. Also reaching or feeling for a screen from a defender is allowed. Also a few years ago it became a rule that a post defender making incidental contact with a shooter should be a no call as long as the defender is verticals and his hands are verticals.
Thanks for that, I have been really wondering about how far the hand check rule went. You still see hand checking by the defender all the time, and it's rarely called, and I've wondered a lot about that (not just OVC, but the bigger and smaller conferences also). I've noticed a few of our games in the last 3 seasons where our guards were hand checked often and hard, for no call. I remember one game where our guard got so tired of the defender laying his hand on him and leaving it, he started slapping the defender's hand off of him when the officials wouldn't call it. The ref blew the whistle on our guard for it. Seen the same thing in a UK game in the last couple of years or so. I have to go with Dan T; I don't like hand checking.

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Re: Officials

Post by speck » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:37 pm

Pretty well leaves it up to ref if he wants to blow his whistle or not.
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Re: Officials

Post by smidge34 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:41 pm

Dan T wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:57 pm
smidge34 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:43 pm
This isn’t 1957 though Mr T. The players don’t shoot granny style FTs, the lane isn’t 5 feet wide, Chucks aren’t the shoe style and the game isn’t called that way anymore. THANK GOD! I understand you disagree and that’s ok.
That's just a tad condescending, wouldn't you say? Is my age an issue for you? Does it make my opinion less worthy? To my knowledge, the rule about hand checking a dribbler is relatively new, as in the last year or so. It didn't exist in my youth. But what do I know. I'm so old that dementia has robbed me of the ability to think or remember.
You’re right Mr T, sorry, it’s just I’d sure hate to go back to that old boring style of basketball.
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Re: Officials

Post by Mike1957 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:26 pm

We need Burl Crowell back
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Re: Officials

Post by Dan T » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:50 pm

smidge34 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:41 pm
Dan T wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:57 pm
smidge34 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:43 pm
This isn’t 1957 though Mr T. The players don’t shoot granny style FTs, the lane isn’t 5 feet wide, Chucks aren’t the shoe style and the game isn’t called that way anymore. THANK GOD! I understand you disagree and that’s ok.
That's just a tad condescending, wouldn't you say? Is my age an issue for you? Does it make my opinion less worthy? To my knowledge, the rule about hand checking a dribbler is relatively new, as in the last year or so. It didn't exist in my youth. But what do I know. I'm so old that dementia has robbed me of the ability to think or remember.
You’re right Mr T, sorry, it’s just I’d sure hate to go back to that old boring style of basketball.
Accepted. Here's a quote from a guard from a couple of years ago while being interviewed about rule changes that limited hand checks and body checks:

"But it’s a more attractive game. It’s a game that better rewards dribbling, shooting and running instead of clutching, grabbing and stalling."

I think it's up to the players to adapt to changes instead of complaining about foul trouble. A lot of posters here seem to think that a high foul count is 100% because of the referee over calling the game. Well it might be, but I certainly don't think that's always true. Sometimes there's just a lot of rough play and attempts to cut corners.

Back when the Racers were still in Racer Arena, TSU came in one night and simply refused to allow much offense to be run against them. They had 15 players and they essentially used them all and kept right on fouling. You could tell that it was their game plan. They also stayed close on the scoreboard. Only in the closing minutes could they no longer afford to foul and the game swung to the Racers. Now THAT was some crap basketball to watch.
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Re: Officials

Post by Ghughes » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:42 pm

Mike1957 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:26 pm
We need Burl Crowell back
Way off the topic here, but I have to share this Burl Crowell story. Told to me by a friend who called Racer games for a while back in Racer Arena days. Cal Luther called Burl over to the sideline during a timeout in the midst of an intense game. He had already thrown his sport jacket on the sideline in frustration. And during this timeout, Cal’s face got red and he was very animated, even pointing at the coat he had shed a few minutes earlier. Despite the obvious tongue lashing Burl was getting, coach didn’t get teed up. And the crowd was loving it. Later on, my friend asked Coach Luther about the incident, asking how he avoided a technical foul. Coach said, I didn’t say anything Burl could use as a reason to call one. How so?, my friend asked. You were waving your arms and your face was red and you were in his face! What did you say? Luther replied, oh that? I just said: “Burl, you see my coat over there? You can get one just like it at Corn-Austin for $50!” My friend concluded it was just another tactic to get the home fans stirred up, loud and rowdy. Coach Luther was known to appreciate the support of our fans, and encouraged lively interaction within reason at our games back then.
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Re: Officials

Post by Tick21 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:33 am

The biggest difference between good officials and bad ones, is the bad ones anticipate fouls and blow the whistle even though their not sure if one is committed. The good ones only call what they see, therefore the good officials make less calls not more. That’s why you see less fouls called in the NCAA tournament.
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Re: Officials

Post by wkeown » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:47 am

Is anybody aware if there are any officiating statistics or metrics websites that can be observed? The OVC refs seem to call more than the fair share of walking and moving screens calls.
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Re: Officials

Post by smidge34 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:04 am

I see them miss way more travels than they call, that’s partly why I was so pissed off on that BS traveling call on Quanny.
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Re: Officials

Post by racerman100 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:31 am

Also as far as officials goes good ones let some contact go that does not affect the play. It seems like there are like Tick said guys anticipating a foul. If does not affect the flow of the play let it go.
When I coached I was on the officials a lot. 8) Most of my complaints were the anticipation fouls that drove me crazy! When you have over 20 fouls a half that makes the game hard to watch.
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Re: Officials

Post by smidge34 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:45 am

Besides the anticipation calls, the ones that bother me the most are the inconsistent ones. They let them battle underneath then call a ticky tack touch 35 feet from the basket.
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