Conference race

This forum is for the discussion of the men's basketball team.
User avatar
smidge34
TRN GOAT
TRN GOAT
Posts: 11301
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:52 am
Location: Follow me on Twitter: @Smidge342003

Conference race

Post by smidge34 »

Image
:goracers: 109

User avatar
racerlover
TRN All-American
TRN All-American
Posts: 2433
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:25 am
Location: Murray, KY.

Re: Conference race

Post by racerlover »

Four teams with a winning record. Absolutely disgusting. Nothing else to say. Status quo in the OVC.

runningracer
TRN All-American
TRN All-American
Posts: 2403
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:02 am

Re: Conference race

Post by runningracer »

The NCAA imposes penalties for schools who fail to meet academic standards. The OVC only allows eight teams into the tournament. It is time for the OVC to impose financial penalties for those schools who do not demonstrate a competitive level of performance.

The NCAA provides a system of performance evaluation called the NET. There are currently 353 Division 1 teams. If you finish in the top 299 in this evaluation, then you are in the top 85 percentile. Given the advantages in travel costs by being a member of the OVC, there is little reason for any school to be in the lower 15 percentile. To do so is a clear indicator that the school does not have the interest, and support, to play at the highest level that the NCAA provides.

What I propose is simple. If a team does not either finish in the top 299 of the last NET ratings, or else make the OVC tournament, then they do not receive their share of tournament money that year, and it is awarded to the other schools that meet the standard. This will allow teams who do not improve enough to make the tournament to still qualify for funds, if they are in the top 85% of all Division 1 teams.

Too many teams in the OVC are running lower level programs, while giving the pretense of being a Division 1 team. The presidents, and athletic directors, as well as their fans and graduates know who they are.

User avatar
JoeD
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 8005
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:07 pm

Re: Conference race

Post by JoeD »

You have to have a majority of schools vote to accept that
Last edited by JoeD on Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Americans dead by COVID-19 as of 5/5/2020 72,271.
Americans lost in Vietnam- 58,209
Korea- 38,616
All other American dead in every conflict since 1975 including 9/11 and Benghazi- 10,580

Some hoax

User avatar
smidge34
TRN GOAT
TRN GOAT
Posts: 11301
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:52 am
Location: Follow me on Twitter: @Smidge342003

Re: Conference race

Post by smidge34 »

When the OVC held the summer retreat right before Steve Prohm left for Iowa State and right after we were left out of the NCAA in what should have been a no brainer at-large bid, it was brought up that maybe the conference should agree to an OOC scheduling mandate similar to what the MVC had when they were kicking ass. Word is Martin was one who let it be known they needed scheduling to run their program and the rest of the happy with low major status schools followed suit. Steve promptly hauled ass and who could blame him?
:goracers: 109

runningracer
TRN All-American
TRN All-American
Posts: 2403
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:02 am

Re: Conference race

Post by runningracer »

The direction that the NCAA is headed, don't expect the automatic bids to last forever. Why should they give bids to leagues that have half of their teams in the bottom 15%. It won't happen next year, but I have no doubt that it is coming. The alternative is for improvement before that decision is made.

wkeown
TRN Starting Lineup
TRN Starting Lineup
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:36 pm

Re: Conference race

Post by wkeown »

What are the OVC schools to do? You think they are turning down 75-100K paydays to play UK, Arkansas, Indiana, etc? The system is totally broken. We have to fight for scraps. Time to go round robin In the conference and enter into a contract with another Div. 1 conference ASAP. That’s the best we could hope for.

User avatar
JoeD
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 8005
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:07 pm

Re: Conference race

Post by JoeD »

That was the issue as I saw it because at this point we have almost no negotiation power as our conference is pretty weak.
Americans dead by COVID-19 as of 5/5/2020 72,271.
Americans lost in Vietnam- 58,209
Korea- 38,616
All other American dead in every conflict since 1975 including 9/11 and Benghazi- 10,580

Some hoax

Dan T
TRN POY
TRN POY
Posts: 1159
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:28 pm

Re: Conference race

Post by Dan T »

racerlover wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:39 pm
Four teams with a winning record. Absolutely disgusting. Nothing else to say. Status quo in the OVC.
An examination of the standings would indicate that the wins are distributed almost evenly around the statistical median.

speck
TRN MVP
TRN MVP
Posts: 925
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:50 am

Re: Conference race

Post by speck »

But the way the season is going over half of the teams are capable of pulling the upsets to be in the championship game.

User avatar
smidge34
TRN GOAT
TRN GOAT
Posts: 11301
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:52 am
Location: Follow me on Twitter: @Smidge342003

Re: Conference race

Post by smidge34 »

There is such a clear divide between the the top 3-4 and the rest I just don’t see any of the lower seeded teams being able to pull off 3 straight to get to the ‘ship.
:goracers: 109

EKU05
TRN Sixth Man
TRN Sixth Man
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:53 am
Location: Louisville, KY

Re: Conference race

Post by EKU05 »

I gotta tell you guys, as a fan of one of those teams with a losing record I could not possibly feel better about what this EKU team has done. I mean, we're missing at least five players (off the top of my head) that we believed we'd have available to us going into the summer. I think we're rolling with 7 scholarship guys right now, and none of that is to mention that the centerpiece of our recruiting class, Michael Moreno, missed half of his last season of high school and basically the entire off-season of learning/conditioning with an injury.

That we are within a game of .500 after the start we had is a miracle, and I think we're going to be real contenders in this league in the next year or two. For this season I feel like we're most likely to finish fourth in what is obviously not a strong OVC. This is by far the most fun I've ever had rooting for a team with a losing record (that hopefully will not have one anymore as of Thursday).

sparekracer
TRN Benchwarmer
TRN Benchwarmer
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:59 am

Re: Conference race

Post by sparekracer »

I liked the discussion we had last year (I think... wasn't this year) about starting a new conference.

I think it may be time for the non-power 5 conferences to get together and see what they can band together. Maybe it makes sense to split colleges/universities into different conferences based on the sports (i.e. MSU would be in one conference in basketball and in another in football).

I don't remember what teams we all talked about in that thread. But the point was to get some powerhouse basketball teams within these lowly conferences - MSU, Belmont, SIU, Lipscomb, ETSU - all playing within the same conference and then that conference would carry some weight when it came tournament time. If you don't want to care about basketball, like TTU and SEMO, then go into another conference and be happy with your one automatic 16 seed bid when it comes tournament time.

User avatar
apsufan82
TRN MVP
TRN MVP
Posts: 915
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:30 pm
Location: Clarksville

Re: Conference race

Post by apsufan82 »

Question and a discussion just for fun.

Govs and Murray split regular season games, throw in a loss each from someone else in the conference, both schools meet in the OVC Final. Regardless who wins that final game, are both in the NCAA Tourney?
I think it would be hard to keep both of them out should it play out like that
Follow me on twitter @cmathews82.

evvracerfan
TRN Starting Lineup
TRN Starting Lineup
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:24 pm

Re: Conference race

Post by evvracerfan »

EKU05 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:06 am
I gotta tell you guys, as a fan of one of those teams with a losing record I could not possibly feel better about what this EKU team has done. I mean, we're missing at least five players (off the top of my head) that we believed we'd have available to us going into the summer. I think we're rolling with 7 scholarship guys right now, and none of that is to mention that the centerpiece of our recruiting class, Michael Moreno, missed half of his last season of high school and basically the entire off-season of learning/conditioning with an injury.

That we are within a game of .500 after the start we had is a miracle, and I think we're going to be real contenders in this league in the next year or two. For this season I feel like we're most likely to finish fourth in what is obviously not a strong OVC. This is by far the most fun I've ever had rooting for a team with a losing record (that hopefully will not have one anymore as of Thursday).
I understand where you're coming from. One of my most enjoyable seasons was the year MSU won the CIT tourney. Just to see where we started the season to where we ended up was a fun ride. EKU hired the wrong guy last time but you seem to be headed in the right direction. I was skeptical of your current coach based on his resume when he was hired but it looks like he's going to be good.

The OVC is best when the long term OVC programs are relevant in the championship chase. If EKU can land the #4 seed this year that's a pretty good step forward and something to build upon. The program I've never understood is SEMO - you would think they should be a better program than what they've been given the community, school and their arena. Hopefully their next coach will be able to build something there, because one thing is for certain - their current coach isn't getting the job done.

User avatar
msuowns
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:57 pm
Location: Paducah

Re: Conference race

Post by msuowns »

apsufan82 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:42 pm
Question and a discussion just for fun.

Govs and Murray split regular season games, throw in a loss each from someone else in the conference, both schools meet in the OVC Final. Regardless who wins that final game, are both in the NCAA Tourney?
I think it would be hard to keep both of them out should it play out like that
Congrats to apsu for raising their game.
"Home, home again I like to be here when I can. When I come home cold and tired, it's good to warm my bones by the fire".

User avatar
msuowns
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:57 pm
Location: Paducah

Re: Conference race

Post by msuowns »

evvracerfan wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:48 pm
EKU05 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:06 am
I gotta tell you guys, as a fan of one of those teams with a losing record I could not possibly feel better about what this EKU team has done. I mean, we're missing at least five players (off the top of my head) that we believed we'd have available to us going into the summer. I think we're rolling with 7 scholarship guys right now, and none of that is to mention that the centerpiece of our recruiting class, Michael Moreno, missed half of his last season of high school and basically the entire off-season of learning/conditioning with an injury.

That we are within a game of .500 after the start we had is a miracle, and I think we're going to be real contenders in this league in the next year or two. For this season I feel like we're most likely to finish fourth in what is obviously not a strong OVC. This is by far the most fun I've ever had rooting for a team with a losing record (that hopefully will not have one anymore as of Thursday).
I understand where you're coming from. One of my most enjoyable seasons was the year MSU won the CIT tourney. Just to see where we started the season to where we ended up was a fun ride. EKU hired the wrong guy last time but you seem to be headed in the right direction. I was skeptical of your current coach based on his resume when he was hired but it looks like he's going to be good.

The OVC is best when the long term OVC programs are relevant in the championship chase. If EKU can land the #4 seed this year that's a pretty good step forward and something to build upon. The program I've never understood is SEMO - you would think they should be a better program than what they've been given the community, school and their arena. Hopefully their next coach will be able to build something there, because one thing is for certain - their current coach isn't getting the job done.
That CIT tourney run was a blast. Especially that first road game
"Home, home again I like to be here when I can. When I come home cold and tired, it's good to warm my bones by the fire".

evvracerfan
TRN Starting Lineup
TRN Starting Lineup
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:24 pm

Re: Conference race

Post by evvracerfan »

apsufan82 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:42 pm
Question and a discussion just for fun.

Govs and Murray split regular season games, throw in a loss each from someone else in the conference, both schools meet in the OVC Final. Regardless who wins that final game, are both in the NCAA Tourney?
I think it would be hard to keep both of them out should it play out like that
I'd be shocked if that happened. Neither team is ranked in the top 100 in the NET rankings right now and we both have too many games left vs teams ranked in the 300's for either one of us to improve the rankings enough to gain the 50+ spots needed to get on the bubble. Any loss vs. anyone not named Belmont, Murray State, or Austin Peay would mean at least a 10-15 spot drop overnight. Belmont's final NET ranking was in the upper 40's last year and they were one of the final teams (maybe THE final team) to get an at large bid in the play in round. There's just too much distance and not enough games against quality opponents. Ironically, Belmont's best resume win last year (and probably the one that put them over the top for their at large bid) was beating the Racers in Murray when Ja went down in the first two minutes to an ankle injury.

User avatar
JoeD
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 8005
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:07 pm

Re: Conference race

Post by JoeD »

Yeah I'd would say no. Too many OOC losses that have turned out to not be good. Evansville, for example ,at the time wasn't a bad loss, but looking at it now is a stinker. That is the risk you run with a young team.

For the govs, losses to Vandy and UGA would hurt (the western loss REALLY hurts, even with Bassey healthy) , but what really hurts is no good wins.
Americans dead by COVID-19 as of 5/5/2020 72,271.
Americans lost in Vietnam- 58,209
Korea- 38,616
All other American dead in every conflict since 1975 including 9/11 and Benghazi- 10,580

Some hoax

atlantaracer
TRN Sixth Man
TRN Sixth Man
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Conference race

Post by atlantaracer »

apsufan82 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:42 pm
Question and a discussion just for fun.

Govs and Murray split regular season games, throw in a loss each from someone else in the conference, both schools meet in the OVC Final. Regardless who wins that final game, are both in the NCAA Tourney?
I think it would be hard to keep both of them out should it play out like that
82

I appreciate the optimism, but I agree with JoeD and would take it a step further. If either Peay or Murray would run the table and lose on a buzzer beating 3 in the finals, the team would be NIT bound. (There is still pain from that shot.). Any loss before the finals to either team, let alone 2, would certainly seal that fate.

Last year, Belmont had a first round pick and was 26-5. Wins at Murray and Pauley Pavillion (UCLA was down, but that still was a high profile win) in a stronger OVC were barely enough to get one of the final bids. A retiring Rick Byrd may have helped too (I know he didn’t announce until after, but he is so well connected that I can’t believe committee members weren’t aware).

Even with Ja and the media attention, given our 12 seed, a loss to Belmont in the finals would probably have sent Murray to NIT.

The conference last year was better at the top and OOC was better. Wish it was different, but that’s the reality of OVC life.

Post Reply
Explore Kentucky Lake