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Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:11 am
by racernut69
Let's jump back to Chico and Daquan...

Realistically, will any of these guys approach 20 points per game average? Similarly, will any other incoming players approach 18-20 per game and perhaps 5-6 assists?

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:01 am
by wkeown
I think it is a sad state of affairs that we have to cycle in a new coach almost every time we go to the NCAA tournament. Especially considering we have been there 15 times out of the last 30 years. I hope McMahon doesn't jump at the first Power 5, 6, or 7 offer he gets, because as we are witnessing, that fairy tale story has not ended up well for just about all.

McMahon has just begun to establish this "system" that he recently mentioned that he has this last week in interviews. Does he truly have a "system" or is he table setting the potential offers that may be forthcoming?

If it were me, knowing the support base I have at Murray, I would prefer continuing to implement this "system" to see if it really is a system that works.

And to be frank...was it really "the system" that got us to the tournament, or Ja Morant? Before you disagree with me, Ja played almost EVERY minute of every game this year. We saw how well the "system" worked without him. Remember - we were picked to finish fourth in the conference before everyone knew how good Ja was going to be. We kind of played like the sixth or seventh team without him.

I think we would all agree that McMahon has done a fantastic job these last two years, but he is still green. We really just started to see him develop into a good coach just this year. He is only going to get better staying here. IMO, I think it would be a mistake on his part to leave this year. I think he needs two more years of seasoning. I am sure that won't stop hungry ADs from recruiting him though.

I think coaches have this mentality that you are in it just to take that next level jump in pay and university prestige when it comes. When you hit that wall, though, and 80% of those coaches do within 5 years, what do you do then??? Time to think outside the box a bit and play the long game in my opinion. Get yourself in peak coaching condition and take the job that YOU want instead of the job where they just want you.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:06 am
by wkeown
racernut69 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:11 am
Let's jump back to Chico and Daquan...

Realistically, will any of these guys approach 20 points per game average? Similarly, will any other incoming players approach 18-20 per game and perhaps 5-6 assists?
I think the team will definitely have a different look next year. Cowart and Tevin will be the featured players with Smith and Williams being the bangers inside and DaQuan or one of the freshman coming in to be the facilitator that Ja was in 2017-2018. That looks to me to be more of a slower, deliberate offense than this years team.

When you look at us on paper...man... we have the potential for another good year in 2019-2010.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:15 am
by smidge34
Not meaning to pick on you but every time our coach is successful or we have a lottery pick somebody posts a suggestion they should stay. No, no they shouldn’t stay and they won’t. If I’m making $400K per year and I’m offered 6X-8X more money or I’m a poor college student and I can leave early for a lucrative multi-million $ salary it doesn’t take a genius to figure the rest out.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:42 am
by STLRacer
smidge34 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:15 am
Not meaning to pick on you but every time our coach is successful or we have a lottery pick somebody posts a suggestion they should stay. No, no they shouldn’t stay and they won’t. If I’m making $400K per year and I’m offered 6X-8X more money or I’m a poor college student and I can leave early for a lucrative multi-million $ salary it doesn’t take a genius to figure the rest out.
Remember there has also been people on here in the past month saying they think Ja should stay another year to develop... you know since he would only be giving up being a top 3 pick in the NBA draft and capitalizing on his stock being sky high in a year that will be a very weak draft. Nobody who suggests these things would ever do the same if they were in CMM or Ja’s shoes.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:44 am
by Blue N Gold
wkeown wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:01 am
I think it is a sad state of affairs that we have to cycle in a new coach almost every time we go to the NCAA tournament. Especially considering we have been there 15 times out of the last 30 years. I hope McMahon doesn't jump at the first Power 5, 6, or 7 offer he gets, because as we are witnessing, that fairy tale story has not ended up well for just about all.

McMahon has just begun to establish this "system" that he recently mentioned that he has this last week in interviews. Does he truly have a "system" or is he table setting the potential offers that may be forthcoming?

If it were me, knowing the support base I have at Murray, I would prefer continuing to implement this "system" to see if it really is a system that works.

And to be frank...was it really "the system" that got us to the tournament, or Ja Morant? Before you disagree with me, Ja played almost EVERY minute of every game this year. We saw how well the "system" worked without him. Remember - we were picked to finish fourth in the conference before everyone knew how good Ja was going to be. We kind of played like the sixth or seventh team without him.

I think we would all agree that McMahon has done a fantastic job these last two years, but he is still green. We really just started to see him develop into a good coach just this year. He is only going to get better staying here. IMO, I think it would be a mistake on his part to leave this year. I think he needs two more years of seasoning. I am sure that won't stop hungry ADs from recruiting him though.

I think coaches have this mentality that you are in it just to take that next level jump in pay and university prestige when it comes. When you hit that wall, though, and 80% of those coaches do within 5 years, what do you do then??? Time to think outside the box a bit and play the long game in my opinion. Get yourself in peak coaching condition and take the job that YOU want instead of the job where they just want you.
What you do if you fail at the next level school is take your fat bank account to another job making what you were (at minimum) at Murray. Unless something crazy happens we will not be on Sportscenter weekly next year and likely will not be quite as hot a topic so you strike while the iron is hot if you're Matt, in my opinion.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:49 am
by runningracer
McMahon will be fine. If he wants to stay at Murray, and raise his kids here, he will be in a good situation. He knows that. Let's cut the talk about him going somewhere else until after the season is over. It is a distraction for him, his assistants, and the players, I still cringe when I remember how Gottfried was negotiating with Alabama before our tournament game. I always felt the talk about leaving had an affect on the team's play. Currently he is under contract to coach at Murray State, and that is the only school that needs to be on his or the team's mind. This team can go a long way if we get teams that we math up well against.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:50 am
by smidge34
Excuse me, our discussing Matt on this message board is NOT a distraction to the coaching staff, let’s nip that BS in the bud. They don’t care about this message board. Fans discuss things on a message board, anybody who doesn’t like the discussion is free to not participate but we will discuss all things Racers here and that is that.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:56 am
by runningracer
Easy Smidge, I didn't attack anyone. I just stated my opinion, which if I read you right, is my right. If you don't like it, you can always use your ignore button. :twocents:

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:01 am
by runningracer
Sorry, just getting to this thread, but saw where someone said something about Andy Kennedy. He just didn't get the job done at Mississippi. Lack of discipline was part of the problem there.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:02 am
by smidge34
Just nipping in the bud anybody attempting to shut down the convo.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:36 am
by speck
If he wants to make big bucks he better get out of dodge while he is on top. The future has no promises. And as for the "system" I think it leaves for the pros this year.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:45 am
by murraygrad05
JessieWilliams wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:01 pm
Remember the name Andy Kennedy
Andy Kennedy is the equivalent to Billy Gillespie.

As much as I'd love to keep a coach more than 2 or 3 years at a time, he'd be a fool to stay if offered a P5 school. The incentives are off the charts. You can only win .500 in conference and make the tourney and get that bonus. There's 2 names I can think of right now that would be possibilities, with one of those being a backup plan if the first choice pulls a trick on us.

Considering the first choice is still indirectly involved with our program, as in still showing up at our games from time to time, it's a no brainer.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:44 pm
by JoeD
I’m not sure I would assume that we will slow down next season. Don’t get me wrong, Cowart will be an offensive focus, but guards run this conference and we will have same dang good ones to choose from.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:32 pm
by msuowns
murraygrad05 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:45 am
JessieWilliams wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:01 pm
Remember the name Andy Kennedy
Andy Kennedy is the equivalent to Billy Gillespie.

As much as I'd love to keep a coach more than 2 or 3 years at a time, he'd be a fool to stay if offered a P5 school. The incentives are off the charts. You can only win .500 in conference and make the tourney and get that bonus. There's 2 names I can think of right now that would be possibilities, with one of those being a backup plan if the first choice pulls a trick on us.

Considering the first choice is still indirectly involved with our program, as in still showing up at our games from time to time, it's a no brainer.
Rhode Island #8 just defeats VCU #1.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:47 pm
by RacerFreak993
For reference on Andy Kennedy...here is another Division 1 coach's record that did well at a Mid-Major but has had many 10 loss P5 seasons.

12 losses
11 losses
18 losses (13-18 record)
11 losses

The Coach? Steve Prohm at Iowa State. Dominated the OVC and has been above average in the P5.

Kennedy had a winning record in 12 of his 13 years. He's a good coach but not a high level P5 coach. He'd be better than every coach in the OVC other than Rick Byrd and would have way more recruiting connections than everyone in the conference. Yeah, he didn't do amazing at Ole Miss but guess what? We don't usually get coaches that do amazing in the P5. Most every coach in the OVC would have a losing record every season in the P5. Don't lose sight of where we are in the world...Kennedy was on the big stage for a reason...you don't get there and have an overall winning record over 13 seasons if you aren't a good coach.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:02 pm
by 02Racer
RacerFreak993 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:47 pm
For reference on Andy Kennedy...here is another Division 1 coach's record that did well at a Mid-Major but has had many 10 loss P5 seasons.

12 losses
11 losses
18 losses (13-18 record)
11 losses

The Coach? Steve Prohm at Iowa State. Dominated the OVC and has been above average in the P5.

Kennedy had a winning record in 12 of his 13 years. He's a good coach but not a high level P5 coach. He'd be better than every coach in the OVC other than Rick Byrd and would have way more recruiting connections than everyone in the conference. Yeah, he didn't do amazing at Ole Miss but guess what? We don't usually get coaches that do amazing in the P5. Most every coach in the OVC would have a losing record every season in the P5. Don't lose sight of where we are in the world...Kennedy was on the big stage for a reason...you don't get there and have an overall winning record over 13 seasons if you aren't a good coach.
We've had great success for decades with a constant stream of hungry young coaches on the way up. It's certainly not up to me, but I have zero interest in messing with that formula.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:24 pm
by murraygrad05
RacerFreak993 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:47 pm
For reference on Andy Kennedy...here is another Division 1 coach's record that did well at a Mid-Major but has had many 10 loss P5 seasons.

12 losses
11 losses
18 losses (13-18 record)
11 losses

The Coach? Steve Prohm at Iowa State. Dominated the OVC and has been above average in the P5.

Kennedy had a winning record in 12 of his 13 years. He's a good coach but not a high level P5 coach. He'd be better than every coach in the OVC other than Rick Byrd and would have way more recruiting connections than everyone in the conference. Yeah, he didn't do amazing at Ole Miss but guess what? We don't usually get coaches that do amazing in the P5. Most every coach in the OVC would have a losing record every season in the P5. Don't lose sight of where we are in the world...Kennedy was on the big stage for a reason...you don't get there and have an overall winning record over 13 seasons if you aren't a good coach.
I don't have a stat book in front of me at the moment but here is what I do know...

Gottfried went on to have a #1 in the country at one time team in the SEC. Kinda underachieved there, but still was a great coach.

We know what Cronin is doing at Cincy. Consistent top 25 team.

Billy Kennedy had a bad year to be plagued by injuries and suspensions. His overall record is not terrible, but it was almost a done deal before the season started that this would be it.

Prohm has also done well. Consistent top 25 teams that also has kinda underachieved.

We always seem to do better with getting the coaches that have not had a head coaching job before, BK being the exclusion but he laid the foundation for what we have now. I just don't see how Andy Kennedy fits here. Not saying he's a bad coach, there is just more out there in my eye.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:16 pm
by wkeown
smidge34 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:15 am
Not meaning to pick on you but every time our coach is successful or we have a lottery pick somebody posts a suggestion they should stay. No, no they shouldn’t stay and they won’t. If I’m making $400K per year and I’m offered 6X-8X more money or I’m a poor college student and I can leave early for a lucrative multi-million $ salary it doesn’t take a genius to figure the rest out.
I don't feel the same way about student athletes as I do coaches. An ACL tear can end it all for an athlete. Plus with the money they can make in the pros, they can get their college degree later. Ja,...he's ready. Would love to see him stay, but he shouldn't at this point.

Coaches...now, that is a different story. Prohm (Hoiberg succession/great program), Kennedy (alma mater), Cronin (alma mater), Gottfried (Big Time ACC)....I understand them leaving. Edgar (alma mater, but...dumb mistake going laterally)....Newton (Big Time SEC and getting on in years)...ok, I get those.

McMahon, I just don't see it today. That guy is just starting to become a good coach. This is Murray State. Those offers will always be there as long as we are Murray State. The offers that will probably come his way in the next few weeks, I think would be a "rise a sinking ship" situation.

No disrespect to McMahon at all...I don't think they guy is such a mastermind of college coaching (yet) that he has outgrown Murray State. I think he still needs a year or two more of sustained success to prove that he has outgrown the OVC. I don't feel that he has yet. Love the guy. Love his energy, passion, etc. But I think his position as a coach is just right at Murray State, for now. Ja Morant is a phenomenon. This wasn't supposed to happen this year. I'm totally convicted in the fact that we would not have won the OVC if Ja was somewhere else.

Win the OVC next year with building blocks from this year, then I am 100 percent with Smidge on this one. Today, I'm not.

Re: The Racer 2019-2020 team

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:27 pm
by smidge34
I generally bat about .250 when predicting so you’ve got a good chance I’m wrong ha.