Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:28 pm

So we just sit here while the conference falls further and further into obscurity, secure in our belief that the powers that be in Nashville just start making good decisions?

No thanks.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:32 pm

And by the way, we have looked for sustained improvement from SIUE, SEMO, EIU, TTU, TSU, even Morehead and gotten nothing for years. How long do we wait? How bad does it get until then?

Again, No thanks.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:37 pm

speck wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:19 pm
Talked to An Evansville fan at the game and he said why do we want in the MVC so bad. His thinking was the OVC could be a better league with a little planning and the MVC was on a downward slide. If we go it will be about the money more so than winning ball games, and what the Racer Nation wants will not be a factor. The more I think about it the less I want to go. Martin, Pee, Tech and TN St. are fun games and so close to Murray. Next few years look for 4 or more good ball teams in the OVC which could be better than MVC best four. Now if she moves the tournament back to Nashville lets get out quick.
I can't argue with the distance issue, but you really think TSU and UTM are fun games to attend? They both play in third rate gyms with crowds that are there to see Murray more than their own team. And the OVC will never make the right decisions. The conference continues to get worse by the year. And so do most of the teams in it. Soon, we will be competing with the MEAC or SWAC as the worst conference. Don't laugh. It could happen easily.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by smidge34 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:28 pm

Now if she moves the tournament back to Nashville lets get out quick.
“She” didn’t move the tournament to Evansville, the presidents did.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by wkeown » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:48 pm

I'll put the period in this thread right now. The only reason worth staying in the OVC is because we're in it. If we are in the MVC, then we'd be the bomb there too. Time to move on.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by A_1985_grad » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:29 pm

RacerLegacy84 wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:20 pm
IF (big IF) Murray State ever moves to the MVC...those of you in favor of a move are saying you're willing to travel, on average over 300 miles to watch your Racers play. Thanks to Google Maps, here are the miles it would take each time Murray State played a team in the MVC.

110 - SIUC
139 - Evansville
277 - Indiana State
334 - Illinois State
358 - Bradley
360 - MO State
418 - Valpo
428 - Loyola Chicago
560 - Drake
594 - N. Iowa
Average distance from Murray - 357 miles - about 5 hours and 20 mins of driving

47 - UTM
66 - APSU
118 - TSU
124 - SEMO
125 - Belmont
199 - TN Tech
226 - SIUE
246 - EIU
292 - EKU
332 - Morehead
Average distance from Murray - 177 miles - about 3 hours of driving

Multiply these by 14 sports. Also, Murray State does not get high volumes of students from Iowa nor do we have an abundance of alumni in those areas. Recruiting is not an excuse to move. Our success, in basketball and football, comes from recruiting the south/southeast and more local for smaller sports. Parents wouldn't be able to travel as easily, fans won't travel like they can now, St. Louis would be fine for the basketball tournament but still would not the premiere event in town like it is in Evansville. It would take a LONG time to see it pay off. And if I remember correctly, the last time we've played Valpo, it was quite lopsided...not in our favor.. and that's the year we swept the conference and won 25 straight games. Like I said before, the MVC is NOT what it used to be. It is a 1-Bid League.
(If I may add a post script to the period.)

You left out Jacksonville State, which is 337 miles from Murray. But, yes, that would be a trade-off, as I doubt many would travel any farther than to Peoria (Bradley) to see a game. And I don't think anyone is traveling anywhere to watch volleyball or rifle. But I'd imagine more people would come to watch Murray State basketball play Valpo, Bradley, Loyola, SIUC and Evansville than would come to watch MSU vs. SIUE, Tech, EIU, Morehead or TSU. Does that matter?

An administrator at UT Martin told me once that the ONLY reason they moved up from Division II and joined the OVC was to play teams closer to them. Is that the model we want to follow?
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by smidge34 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:34 pm

When Prohm and Ward started trying to bring discussion to scheduling for the better of the conference than for $ at that basketball “summit” the OVC had just before Prohm booked, they were cut off at the knees by Martin’s AD. Basically wanted no part of the discussion. Prohm was destined to leave but that was like the proverbial straw.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:42 pm

smidge34 wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:34 pm
When Prohm and Ward started trying to bring discussion to scheduling for the better of the conference than for $ at that basketball “summit” the OVC had just before Prohm booked, they were cut off at the knees by Martin’s AD. Basically wanted no part of the discussion. Prohm was destined to leave but that was like the proverbial straw.
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall at that get together. BTW, when did UTM run the show in this conference? Maybe they should start with soda fountains, but that would require money.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by smidge34 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:46 pm

With brainiac moves like this perhaps we do indeed need to exit this bush league conference, good grief. :crazy:
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:50 pm

smidge34 wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:46 pm
With brainiac moves like this perhaps we do indeed need to exit this bush league conference, good grief. :crazy:
I would say they couldn't do any worse, but then again, there were four schools in the OVC worse than SIUE. Sadly. So the losing will continue in Edwardsville. :thumbdown:
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by A_1985_grad » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:03 pm

Seems as if the lowest common denominator runs the league at the end of the day. That's why many of us want better.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by msuowns » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:05 pm

Regardless, we are still in a much better place than any school in conf. USA. Every year their conf tournament is on par with the swac conf tournament. No one goes, limited tv and they have it at places, most schools cant even bring fans too. Im ok with going to the mvc, but our ovc situation is much better than most schools situation WITH CONF USA.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by Blue N Gold » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:57 pm

I'm against the move until we can improve our enrollment and University financial situation (and a move is not the solution). With our current basketball budget we'd be near the bottom in MVC so where are the millions going to come from to be competitive and to cover the increased travel and lodging costs? And let's not forget all of the other sports...

And another thing...Does everyone really think both us and Belmont would have the same record playing in the MVC as we do in the OVC? I'm not saying we wouldn't win the conference this year but an off night against Tenn Tech would go much differently than against Bradley or Drake. I just keep seeing people say "if we were in the MVC this year" we would get an at large bid and there's just no way you can assume that.

I want more for the Racers...I really do, but let's remember why the University is here and focus efforts on fixing that. Plus this year has been pretty dang fun in the OVC.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:13 pm

If you’re waiting for the university to solve its financial problem before exploring a better situation, you’re basically saying you’re good with is going down the drain. You have to fight to make more relevant the things that are important. That won’t happen in this conference. Perhaps it will take another clear message that the OVC is not a viable place.

And BTW, we wouldn’t need an identical record to do better in the MVC. But in the MVC we would have been in the top 25 for weeks this season.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by 75Fan » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:14 pm

Blue N Gold wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:57 pm
I'm against the move until we can improve our enrollment and University financial situation (and a move is not the solution). With our current basketball budget we'd be near the bottom in MVC so where are the millions going to come from to be competitive and to cover the increased travel and lodging costs? And let's not forget all of the other sports...

And another thing...Does everyone really think both us and Belmont would have the same record playing in the MVC as we do in the OVC? I'm not saying we wouldn't win the conference this year but an off night against Tenn Tech would go much differently than against Bradley or Drake. I just keep seeing people say "if we were in the MVC this year" we would get an at large bid and there's just no way you can assume that.

I want more for the Racers...I really do, but let's remember why the University is here and focus efforts on fixing that. Plus this year has been pretty dang fun in the OVC.
I think it's fair to assume that we would have a better NET and the pundits wouldn't be saying our schedule is too soft to warrant at-large consideration. Last I checked, our SOS was 320 out of 353 schools. Think about that, after playing Auburn and Alabama and SIU and Belmont and Jacksonville State and Austin Peay, we still have only 33 teams with a softer schedule than us! I call that getting hamstrung by the bottom perennial cellar-dwellers of this conference.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by A_1985_grad » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:17 pm

Blue N Gold wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:57 pm
I'm against the move until we can improve our enrollment and University financial situation (and a move is not the solution). With our current basketball budget we'd be near the bottom in MVC so where are the millions going to come from to be competitive and to cover the increased travel and lodging costs? And let's not forget all of the other sports...

And another thing...Does everyone really think both us and Belmont would have the same record playing in the MVC as we do in the OVC? I'm not saying we wouldn't win the conference this year but an off night against Tenn Tech would go much differently than against Bradley or Drake. I just keep seeing people say "if we were in the MVC this year" we would get an at large bid and there's just no way you can assume that.

I want more for the Racers...I really do, but let's remember why the University is here and focus efforts on fixing that. Plus this year has been pretty dang fun in the OVC.
I understand what you're saying, but what if Sam Walton had said, "I'm fine with my little store here in Arkansas. I don't think I can afford to expand." Or what if Harlan Sanders had said, "My roadside restaurant with the tasty chicken is doing just fine, no need for another one."

You spend money to make money when you can. That's how you grow. I realize some people are happy where we're at, and that's fine. I also realize we've not been invited to move anywhere. But if the day comes, I hope we take the chance. Otherwise, in a few years, we may have a championship club that's waiting for an at-large bid that never comes even AFTER we win the OVC Tournament. And you can forget about future NBA talent coming here to play in that environment.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:29 pm

Blue N Gold wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:57 pm
I'm against the move until we can improve our enrollment and University financial situation (and a move is not the solution). With our current basketball budget we'd be near the bottom in MVC so where are the millions going to come from to be competitive and to cover the increased travel and lodging costs? And let's not forget all of the other sports...

And another thing...Does everyone really think both us and Belmont would have the same record playing in the MVC as we do in the OVC? I'm not saying we wouldn't win the conference this year but an off night against Tenn Tech would go much differently than against Bradley or Drake. I just keep seeing people say "if we were in the MVC this year" we would get an at large bid and there's just no way you can assume that.

I want more for the Racers...I really do, but let's remember why the University is here and focus efforts on fixing that. Plus this year has been pretty dang fun in the OVC.
SIUE has a larger enrollment than Carbondale. What's the point? I'm understanding what you're saying about the increased travel expenses, but what do you mean by "where are the millions going to come from to be competitive"? Sans travel costs, we would be highly competitive as is. I understand some are afraid of change, but damn. The OVC is NEVER going to get better. Never. We've been riding that dream for 20 years now.. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different outcome. We're not getting to the next level in the OVC, basically on hopes and dreams of them improving themselves.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by Blue N Gold » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:50 am

JoeD wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:13 pm
If you’re waiting for the university to solve its financial problem before exploring a better situation, you’re basically saying you’re good with is going down the drain. You have to fight to make more relevant the things that are important. That won’t happen in this conference. Perhaps it will take another clear message that the OVC is not a viable place.

And BTW, we wouldn’t need an identical record to do better in the MVC. But in the MVC we would have been in the top 25 for weeks this season.
What's most important is the University being able to have the operating funds to offer students the best eduction possible and employ thousands in our community. Basketball is secondary. I can't see increasing spending on basketball (and all sports) in the hopes that we'll see a return on that investment.

On your last point - You can't assume that. We just as easily could have had 2-3 more conference losses if we were in the MVC. Was the best MVC team ranked this year (I honestly don't know???)
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by Blue N Gold » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:54 am

racerlover wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:29 pm
Blue N Gold wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:57 pm
I'm against the move until we can improve our enrollment and University financial situation (and a move is not the solution). With our current basketball budget we'd be near the bottom in MVC so where are the millions going to come from to be competitive and to cover the increased travel and lodging costs? And let's not forget all of the other sports...

And another thing...Does everyone really think both us and Belmont would have the same record playing in the MVC as we do in the OVC? I'm not saying we wouldn't win the conference this year but an off night against Tenn Tech would go much differently than against Bradley or Drake. I just keep seeing people say "if we were in the MVC this year" we would get an at large bid and there's just no way you can assume that.

I want more for the Racers...I really do, but let's remember why the University is here and focus efforts on fixing that. Plus this year has been pretty dang fun in the OVC.
SIUE has a larger enrollment than Carbondale. What's the point? I'm understanding what you're saying about the increased travel expenses, but what do you mean by "where are the millions going to come from to be competitive"? Sans travel costs, we would be highly competitive as is. I understand some are afraid of change, but damn. The OVC is NEVER going to get better. Never. We've been riding that dream for 20 years now.. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different outcome. We're not getting to the next level in the OVC, basically on hopes and dreams of them improving themselves.
So long term you think we could compete having the lowest budget in the conference? We'd need to bump our budget at least $1 million to be at the average MVC budget.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:52 am

Blue N Gold wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:54 am
racerlover wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:29 pm
Blue N Gold wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:57 pm
I'm against the move until we can improve our enrollment and University financial situation (and a move is not the solution). With our current basketball budget we'd be near the bottom in MVC so where are the millions going to come from to be competitive and to cover the increased travel and lodging costs? And let's not forget all of the other sports...

And another thing...Does everyone really think both us and Belmont would have the same record playing in the MVC as we do in the OVC? I'm not saying we wouldn't win the conference this year but an off night against Tenn Tech would go much differently than against Bradley or Drake. I just keep seeing people say "if we were in the MVC this year" we would get an at large bid and there's just no way you can assume that.

I want more for the Racers...I really do, but let's remember why the University is here and focus efforts on fixing that. Plus this year has been pretty dang fun in the OVC.
SIUE has a larger enrollment than Carbondale. What's the point? I'm understanding what you're saying about the increased travel expenses, but what do you mean by "where are the millions going to come from to be competitive"? Sans travel costs, we would be highly competitive as is. I understand some are afraid of change, but damn. The OVC is NEVER going to get better. Never. We've been riding that dream for 20 years now.. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different outcome. We're not getting to the next level in the OVC, basically on hopes and dreams of them improving themselves.
So long term you think we could compete having the lowest budget in the conference? We'd need to bump our budget at least $1 million to be at the average MVC budget.

As far as travel expenses, yes. That would obviously increase. But what can't we compete with what we have now? What's our record vs the MVC the past ten years or so? We don't pay players, so I'm failing to see if we your point. Now if you're talking about all sports, then yes. Money would increase. If you're talking just basketball, we'd be just fine as is.
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