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Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by Kentucky Lake » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:22 am

For me, nothing has changed. Murray should be in the MVC. The obvious reasons are more people will get up for the MVC's "worst" teams (Murray vs. Valpo, vs. Indiana State, vs. Evansville) over the OVC's (vs. SIUE, vs. UTM, vs. EIU). I say worst tongue-in-cheek. Evansville, last in the MVC, would be 5th in the OVC.

The other obvious reason is at-large. If Belmont or Murray went 16-2 in the MVC this year we've both be dancing as single digit-seeds.

I will give a little credit to the OVC for moving to Evansville. That was a step in the right direction. But make no mistake - of the 19,000 paid tickets this past weekend, 90% were Murray State/Ja Morant fans.

Hopefully the Racers made a stronger case this year for joining the MVC. We need each other. Why wait any longer?
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by ISUBird » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:25 am

Plenty of fans want to expand and want Murray State as the first option. I do think the MVFC might be apprehensive about adding the football program however.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by Racer Insider Will » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:04 am

I don't think this will happen. But what if Belmont gets an at large bid, will that affect your thinking on the issue?
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:10 am

No.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by smidge34 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:33 am

Racer Insider Will wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:04 am
I don't think this will happen. But what if Belmont gets an at large bid, will that affect your thinking on the issue?
I’m not gonna lie, my earlier “no” isn’t as iron clad as it used to be. If Belmont gets an at-large and the tournament stays first class in Evansville then I’m kinda ok where we are.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by 02Racer » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:41 am

smidge34 wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:33 am
Racer Insider Will wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:04 am
I don't think this will happen. But what if Belmont gets an at large bid, will that affect your thinking on the issue?
I’m not gonna lie, my earlier “no” isn’t as iron clad as it used to be. If Belmont gets an at-large and the tournament stays first class in Evansville then I’m kinda ok where we are.
Agreed. This is where I'm at right now as well.

MVC is a better conference but not enough better to make the change at this point.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by RacerPreacher » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:37 pm

ISUBird wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:25 am
Plenty of fans want to expand and want Murray State as the first option. I do think the MVFC might be apprehensive about adding the football program however.
We understand Football is an issue and would be willing to look at other options for football. I think if it came down to losing us all together or just having our football program the OVC might be willing to allow the football to stay affiliated.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by wallaceracer » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:47 pm

I'm intrigued by this season, but what if in 4 years we're back at the Muni and our top four aren't as strong as this year. We'll be right back in the same situation we've been in for years. The OVC office hasn't changed a bit. They're still the same sorry organization they've been for years. If the conference improves for long term success, it will be because a few schools (Murray, AP, Jax St, etc) pulls the conference up by their boot straps. I'm just afraid this year was just an anomaly for the conference.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by 02Racer » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:53 pm

I've been as critical as anyone of OVC administration but have to give them credit for moving the tournament and for then signing a multi year contract to keep it there.

It's been a huge success in Evansville and has made more money for the conference. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I don't see it going back to the muni any time soon.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by smidge34 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:55 pm

Let’s be clear, a vote by the school presidents moved the tournament and not the conference administration and another vote could move it back at which point our only recourse is to hit them where it hurts...the money.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by 02Racer » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:05 pm

I was including the voting board of presidents as "administration." I didn't intend to imply it was Da bush's decision.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by Kentucky Lake » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:09 pm

MVC or bust. This year is an aberration. Belmont and Murray both would be dancing without question, even if someone else beat us, if we were both in the MVC. Evansville is great, but I would be really shocked if we were in the same scenario next year (two four-loss teams, 19k in paid attendance, top 5 lottery pick)

The bottom 75% of the OVC is terrible. Can't say the same for the MVC.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by RacerLegacy84 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:20 pm

IF (big IF) Murray State ever moves to the MVC...those of you in favor of a move are saying you're willing to travel, on average over 300 miles to watch your Racers play. Thanks to Google Maps, here are the miles it would take each time Murray State played a team in the MVC.

110 - SIUC
139 - Evansville
277 - Indiana State
334 - Illinois State
358 - Bradley
360 - MO State
418 - Valpo
428 - Loyola Chicago
560 - Drake
594 - N. Iowa
Average distance from Murray - 357 miles - about 5 hours and 20 mins of driving

47 - UTM
66 - APSU
118 - TSU
124 - SEMO
125 - Belmont
199 - TN Tech
226 - SIUE
246 - EIU
292 - EKU
332 - Morehead
Average distance from Murray - 177 miles - about 3 hours of driving

Multiply these by 14 sports. Also, Murray State does not get high volumes of students from Iowa nor do we have an abundance of alumni in those areas. Recruiting is not an excuse to move. Our success, in basketball and football, comes from recruiting the south/southeast and more local for smaller sports. Parents wouldn't be able to travel as easily, fans won't travel like they can now, St. Louis would be fine for the basketball tournament but still would not the premiere event in town like it is in Evansville. It would take a LONG time to see it pay off. And if I remember correctly, the last time we've played Valpo, it was quite lopsided...not in our favor.. and that's the year we swept the conference and won 25 straight games. Like I said before, the MVC is NOT what it used to be. It is a 1-Bid League.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by mojoliet » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:44 pm

RacerLegacy84 wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:20 pm
It would take a LONG time to see it pay off.

Loyola entered the MVC a 1-17 Horizon doormat. 5 years later, they were in the Final Four.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by sparekracer » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:45 pm

I agree that the travel thing is going to be an issue. I still think a move to the MVC is a step up, but I don't know if everyone understands the travel concerns with all of that. Murray is just not an easy place to get to or get out of.

I know we were all joking in the other thread where we talked about creating our own conference. But maybe there could be something to that. Get the OVC, MVC, Horizon, Southern, A-Sun? (others?) get all of those conferences together and see if we can't piece together a better set of conferences. Or maybe mix and match teams in conferences for different sports.

A basketball conference with Murray, Belmont, Jacksonville St, Austin Peay, Loyola, Drake (?), SIU, Northern Ky, Lipscomb, and ETSU would look pretty good - but again travel might be a concern. But you can sell traveling a little bit easier when you're traveling to play opponents that can help you get an at-large bid.

Then if you want to keep football schools closer together so there is less travel. Same for baseball.

In terms of basketball, it's always going to be Murray, Belmont, Austin Peay, and a rotating fourth team - that just so happens to be Jacksonville St right now. The rest of the OVC is just going through the motion.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:08 pm

Let's look at this a different way. First off, I like speculating like the rest of you and want us in the MVC, but they're not calling. Second, if we really wanted to improve the OVC from within, we would cut ties with SIUE and UTM, TSU and EIU. I'm not sure about JSU and if they really want to be in the OVC anyway. I'm not saying JSU is bringing the conference down at all, but I recall them wanting to be in the SOCON. I may be wrong though. The OVC is watered down. Honestly, I'd love to see the OVC down to eight schools. TSU wants out too if I'm not mistaken.

Murray
Peay
SEMO
Head
EKU
Tech
Belmont
JSU
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:13 pm

First off, in their worst season in twenty years**, the average NET for the MVC is 170.( with Murray State, that average goes to 158)* This season, certainly not the best, but a very good year for the OVC the average NET is 233. Without Murray State its 251*. the worst place team in the MVC (Evansville, 207) would be 5th in the OVC. That is before you factor in the positive impact changing the SIUE's to SIU's etc raises everyone's NET.

BTW, Belmont is far from assured a spot in the tourney, but if they go, it will be the first time since 1987 that the OVC has had an at large bid. It has happened a grand total of



once; ever. The MVC since 2000? 10 At large bids.


Since 2000, the MVC's average seed is 8.9. The OVC's during the same period? 13.6. Ad seeding has a direct correlation to revenue.

*- this doest take into account the positive/negative changes that would occur in both situations with teams playing different lower or higher NET teams multiple times.
**- by "worst season" I am saying that the highest rated team in their conference is the lowest its been in twenty years.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by wallaceracer » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:26 pm

Wow. This whole thread sounds familiar. :D
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:37 pm

The fact remains that had Belmont and Murray been in the MVC this season and both teams finished with the same conference and overall records, BOTH would easily be dancing. That would make the MVC far from a one bid league. Even though the MVC this year doesn't have a breakout team, that's a rare occasion. And another thing, the conference, even this year, is ranked far better than the OVC will ever reach. Ever.

And Belmont will realize Sunday that the OVC is a freaking boat anchor on their basketball program.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by speck » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:19 pm

Talked to An Evansville fan at the game and he said why do we want in the MVC so bad. His thinking was the OVC could be a better league with a little planning and the MVC was on a downward slide. If we go it will be about the money more so than winning ball games, and what the Racer Nation wants will not be a factor. The more I think about it the less I want to go. Martin, Pee, Tech and TN St. are fun games and so close to Murray. Next few years look for 4 or more good ball teams in the OVC which could be better than MVC best four. Now if she moves the tournament back to Nashville lets get out quick.
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