Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

This forum is for the discussion of the men's basketball team.
Post Reply
sparekracer
TRN Benchwarmer
TRN Benchwarmer
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:59 am
x 11

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by sparekracer » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:44 am

JoeD wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:22 am
Here is the problem with removing teams form the conference- they get a vote too. And none of the weaker teams will allow the stronger teams to push them or anyone else out, because they already have the money where they want it.
Yea, that's why I don't know how feasible all of this is.

But... if you're speaking in terms of dream worlds: Are you better off moving to the MVC where (I'm of the belief that) travel will be a bit more costly or revamping the OVC where travel expense would mostly stay the same? Which of these scenarios is going to result in a better opportunity for an at-large bid?
Like this! Liked

User avatar
02Racer
TRN All-American
TRN All-American
Posts: 2972
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:47 pm
Location: Murray
x 1400

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by 02Racer » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:10 pm

The conference could be doing more to punish the teams that suck perennially. Instead of the top 8 teams, only 6 make the conference tournament. If you suck every year, no TV games for you. If you average below a certain percentage attendance, that's a strike. The worse you are, the less share of revenue you get. Reward the schools that consistently win and bring in more money for the conference. Since we're already playing an unbalanced schedule, let the top half teams play each other twice and the garbage teams can duke it out for last place in front of 300 people twice a season.
Like this! Liked
109

bjhracer
TRN All-American
TRN All-American
Posts: 2082
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:27 pm
x 688

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by bjhracer » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:19 pm

02Racer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:10 pm
The conference could be doing more to punish the teams that suck perennially. Instead of the top 8 teams, only 6 make the conference tournament. If you suck every year, no TV games for you. If you average below a certain percentage attendance, that's a strike. The worse you are, the less share of revenue you get. Reward the schools that consistently win and bring in more money for the conference. Since we're already playing an unbalanced schedule, let the top half teams play each other twice and the garbage teams can duke it out for last place in front of 300 people twice a season.
Problem is the OVC will never do this. They won’t even bring it to a vote. The last basketball improvement plan cost us money because it was only based on improvement. We lost some NCAA share money because we went from 30 wins down to 23 or so and lost RPI ranking. The OVC has made a bad habit out of punishing the hand that feeds them. We need out.
Like this! Liked
"I hate losing, I hate losing more than I love winning." B.J. Jenkins

Racer Insider Will
TRN POY
TRN POY
Posts: 1339
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:04 pm
x 238

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by Racer Insider Will » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:32 pm

Making the top half play each other twice will give the bottom half an easier schedule and it would likely allow bottom-feeders to get a higher seed in the conference tournament. It would encourage tanking to get a weaker schedule. And eventually, it would probably result in one of the bottom feeders winning the regular season title.
Like this! Liked
When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness. To surrender dreams — this too may be madness. Too much sanity may be madness — and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!

User avatar
racerlover
TRN All-American
TRN All-American
Posts: 2284
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:25 am
Location: Murray, KY.
x 464

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:04 pm

The OVC as a whole will not improve. Hell, what happens at Jax when Harper leaves? The best bet would be to eliminate a few schools out of the conference and replace them with ones that have been mentioned. That won't happen either. Headquarters couldn't care less and THAT is the reason why I want us out. Plus, the MVC (usually) would provide a better seed in the tournament. Again, this year is unusual and the OVC has two teams in and better seeds. That said, I really don't want to wait another 32 years before the OVC gets another multiple bid. I firmly believe this year is a fluke for the OVC. Remember, the OVC is still one of the lowest ranked conferences in Division I. Three decades plus two years tells me not to count on this happening again for a while.
Like this! Liked

User avatar
JoeD
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 7686
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:07 pm
x 1143

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:45 pm

Another thing to remember is that Bradley was the 5th seed in the MVC tournament.Their NET rating was 176. The 5th seed in the OVC tournament was Morehead. Their NET was 264. A loss to Morehead in the finals and Belmont is not in Dayton. It took a perfect storm including the implementation of a brand new system, for the OVC to get two bids.
Like this! Liked
Im old enough to remember when being "politically correct" was understood to mean "not being a complete, racist, xenophobic a-hole". Good times...

murrayengineer
TRN Sixth Man
TRN Sixth Man
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 7:41 pm
x 36

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by murrayengineer » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:01 pm

sparekracer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:14 am
murrayengineer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:17 am
Those complaining about travel costs seem to forget that we have an out of conference schedule too. We can replace SIU-C or MTSU with APSU or Tech or Martin.
Basketball travel is probably doable. But the issue is, what do you do with the other sports? It's one thing to have further travel for a basketball team. It's quite another for a football or baseball team. Or volleyball, soccer, and tennis. That's where the travel issue really becomes an issue.

I think my opinion on all of this has changed. Are the chances better that we would receive an MVC bid AND the MVC would be a more likely multi-bid conference? Or are the chances better that we could "kick out" the bottom feeders of the OVC (maybe EKU, Morehead, TSU, TTU) and replace them with Northern Kentucky, Wright State, Lipscomb?

I'm now not so sure that improving the OVC isn't the better alternative. Although, I don't know how feasible all of that really is. But an OVC conference with those 3 teams replace 3 of the current bottom feeders... could that rival the A-10? Maybe even the AAC. And the travel is not that much more.
If you kick out close schools (TSU and TTU) and replace them with NKU and Wright St. you will not solve any travel issues. It is essentially the same distance to Dayton OH as it is to Peoria IL and it is almost 5 hrs to NKU.
Like this! Liked

sparekracer
TRN Benchwarmer
TRN Benchwarmer
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:59 am
x 11

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by sparekracer » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:52 pm

Well, I really meant TSU or TTU.

Basically you replace TSU (a Nashville school) with Lipscomb (a Nashville school).

And replace EKU and Morehead (kind of Lexington area schools) with NKU and Wright State.

Or some combination of the two scenarios.

A TSU for Lipscomb is basically a net null in travel distance.

A Morehead for Wright St is going to be slightly more travel (50 miles?), but the team is a lot better.

Of course, as others have pointed out, kicking out the bottom feeders in the OVC might be a problem. And then there's no guarantee that Wright State, NKU, or Lipscomb would be interested in joining a revamped OVC.

But I think if all of these lower conferences would get together, determine which schools are basketball schools and which ones are football and try to maximize potential in those conferences for those sports, it would result in a more efficient system. A revamped OVC with multiple bids and winning games in the tournament will result in more money for those schools than splitting a single NCAA basketball and football bid - at least I would think.

Unless you're a power 6 conference - I think you need to focus on basketball or football (or baseball?) as the bread winner for your conference. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to abandon those other sports. But if you wind up splitting your money evenly between basketball and football you likely don't have enough money to make either great. But if you focus on one or the other, your chances of making one of them great goes way up.
Like this! Liked

murrayengineer
TRN Sixth Man
TRN Sixth Man
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 7:41 pm
x 36

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by murrayengineer » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:49 pm

sparekracer wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:52 pm
Well, I really meant TSU or TTU.

Basically you replace TSU (a Nashville school) with Lipscomb (a Nashville school).

And replace EKU and Morehead (kind of Lexington area schools) with NKU and Wright State.

Or some combination of the two scenarios.

A TSU for Lipscomb is basically a net null in travel distance.

A Morehead for Wright St is going to be slightly more travel (50 miles?), but the team is a lot better.

Of course, as others have pointed out, kicking out the bottom feeders in the OVC might be a problem. And then there's no guarantee that Wright State, NKU, or Lipscomb would be interested in joining a revamped OVC.

But I think if all of these lower conferences would get together, determine which schools are basketball schools and which ones are football and try to maximize potential in those conferences for those sports, it would result in a more efficient system. A revamped OVC with multiple bids and winning games in the tournament will result in more money for those schools than splitting a single NCAA basketball and football bid - at least I would think.

Unless you're a power 6 conference - I think you need to focus on basketball or football (or baseball?) as the bread winner for your conference. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to abandon those other sports. But if you wind up splitting your money evenly between basketball and football you likely don't have enough money to make either great. But if you focus on one or the other, your chances of making one of them great goes way up.
I would be all for kicking out the bottom feeders and replacing them with better schools. I just see us and maybe 1 other going to the MVC as much easier than 4-6 schools changing conferences.
Like this! Liked

sparekracer
TRN Benchwarmer
TRN Benchwarmer
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:59 am
x 11

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by sparekracer » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:56 pm

I suppose a move to the MVC might be easier or more likely. I'm just no longer sure it's that much more of a guarantee of being considered for an at-large bid. And my concern would be that you're trading one 1-bid conference for another 1-bid conference with added travel expense.
Like this! Liked

dropkick
TRN Starting Lineup
TRN Starting Lineup
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 10:01 pm
x 90

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by dropkick » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:15 pm

Nobody is getting kicked out of their current conference, ever.
Like this! Liked

User avatar
racerlover
TRN All-American
TRN All-American
Posts: 2284
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:25 am
Location: Murray, KY.
x 464

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:38 pm

Another option is to hit schools in the pocketbook. Take this season for example. Outside of the top four teams, not one of the OVC schools deserve a dime of NCAA Tournament money. I've never agreed with distributing the wealth to schools that do nothing to improve. At the very minimum, have a net ranking cutoff. If you're 200 or above, you get zip. Something, anything, has to be done.
Like this! Liked

User avatar
JoeD
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 7686
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:07 pm
x 1143

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:45 pm

And yet you can’t improve without money
Like this! Liked
Im old enough to remember when being "politically correct" was understood to mean "not being a complete, racist, xenophobic a-hole". Good times...

User avatar
racerlover
TRN All-American
TRN All-American
Posts: 2284
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:25 am
Location: Murray, KY.
x 464

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:51 pm

JoeD wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:45 pm
And yet you can’t improve without money
How's that? We're not paying players to sign up to play. Recruiting budget? It's not like any school in the OVC is ever going to have their own private jet to use for recruiting. Arena improvements? Let the school sell naming rights. I'm just tired of rewarding failure.
Like this! Liked

User avatar
JoeD
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 7686
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:07 pm
x 1143

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:59 pm

Because facilities cost money. Coaches cost money. Hell basketballs cost money. Busses cost money. Home games cost money. If you have a bad program, who would buy naming rights?
Like this! Liked
Im old enough to remember when being "politically correct" was understood to mean "not being a complete, racist, xenophobic a-hole". Good times...

User avatar
racerlover
TRN All-American
TRN All-American
Posts: 2284
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:25 am
Location: Murray, KY.
x 464

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:05 pm

JoeD wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:59 pm
Because facilities cost money. Coaches cost money. Hell basketballs cost money. Busses cost money. Home games cost money. If you have a bad program, who would buy naming rights?
But why should it be up to the good programs giving money to Tennessee Tech (for example) to keep their lights on and diesel flowing into the bus? Can't handle Division I, there's always Division II and III. Of course this sounds a lot like our national economy, but I won't go there. :lol:
Like this! Liked

atlantaracer
TRN Sixth Man
TRN Sixth Man
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:40 am
x 97

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by atlantaracer » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:08 pm

I do think some money should go toward teams that accept CIT and CBI invitations.
Like this! Liked

User avatar
JoeD
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 7686
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:07 pm
x 1143

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:21 pm

racerlover wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:05 pm
JoeD wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:59 pm
Because facilities cost money. Coaches cost money. Hell basketballs cost money. Busses cost money. Home games cost money. If you have a bad program, who would buy naming rights?
But why should it be up to the good programs giving money to Tennessee Tech (for example) to keep their lights on and diesel flowing into the bus? Can't handle Division I, there's always Division II and III. Of course this sounds a lot like our national economy, but I won't go there. :lol:

This is the same argument the big $$ conference’s use to keep MMs out of tourneys and given less of the billion dollar pie
Like this! Liked
Im old enough to remember when being "politically correct" was understood to mean "not being a complete, racist, xenophobic a-hole". Good times...

User avatar
msuowns
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 5533
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:57 pm
Location: Paducah
x 506

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by msuowns » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:18 pm

JoeD wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:21 pm
racerlover wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:05 pm
JoeD wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:59 pm
Because facilities cost money. Coaches cost money. Hell basketballs cost money. Busses cost money. Home games cost money. If you have a bad program, who would buy naming rights?
But why should it be up to the good programs giving money to Tennessee Tech (for example) to keep their lights on and diesel flowing into the bus? Can't handle Division I, there's always Division II and III. Of course this sounds a lot like our national economy, but I won't go there. :lol:

This is the same argument the big $$ conference’s use to keep MMs out of tourneys and given less of the billion dollar pie
You just did Joe D. U can’t stay away from politics can u?
Like this! Liked
"Home, home again I like to be here when I can. When I come home cold and tired, it's good to warm my bones by the fire".

User avatar
JoeD
TRN Legend
TRN Legend
Posts: 7686
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:07 pm
x 1143

Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:46 pm

Owns, until you get your irony detector fixed, maybe you should have a coke and a smile
Like this! Liked
Im old enough to remember when being "politically correct" was understood to mean "not being a complete, racist, xenophobic a-hole". Good times...

Post Reply
Explore Kentucky Lake