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Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

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Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by msuowns » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:05 pm

Not sure we would even be better off in the long run. We would have won it this year tho. We are cock of the block in the Ovc with a great shot at the dance every year. Would Mvc really improve our status and recruiting? Only draw back is our bottom half of bums are worse than Mvc bottom half. Our recruiting will remain even stronger in future. Just read USA Today sports guy. He thinks Belmont will get in big dance. They won’t. If big guy could play they deserve it. Talking to some strangers in Manhattan lobby. They all know of Ja Morant and MSU basketball
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:08 pm

No
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:13 pm

Are you kidding? Our top four in the OVC are just as good as anyone in the MVC...this year anyway. The rest of the OVC is complete sewage. The MVC is ranked way higher for a reason. They may not have a breakout team this year, but top to bottom, they are way better than the OVC. You honestly think UTM and SEMO and Tech will improve that much? The cherry on top is that I'd bet if Murray and Belmont were both in the OVC right now, Murray would be getting a better seed in the dance and Belmont wouldn't be waiting on the hot seat waiting for a call. They'd be in. When was the last time the OVC was ranked higher than the MVC? If ever.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by 02Racer » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:16 pm

The OVC tournament format is a major advantage over the MVC, IMO.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:20 pm

Only as much as we avoid the 300+ NET teams, which we would do in the MVC just by being there.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by msuowns » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:23 pm

racerlover wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:13 pm
Are you kidding? Our top four in the OVC are just as good as anyone in the MVC...this year anyway. The rest of the OVC is complete sewage. The MVC is ranked way higher for a reason. They may not have a breakout team this year, but top to bottom, they are way better than the OVC. You honestly think UTM and SEMO and Tech will improve that much? The cherry on top is that I'd bet if Murray and Belmont were both in the OVC right now, Murray would be getting a better seed in the dance and Belmont wouldn't be waiting on the hot seat waiting for a call. They'd be in. When was the last time the OVC was ranked higher than the MVC? If ever.
RL, I know our bottom scrubs will not get better. I said second thoughts folks, not a 100% statement. Still on fence. I do see how WSU shockers and creighton are foundering right now. I think we should have a meeting of the minds on this topic
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:25 pm

You are growing or you are dying. There is no third option.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:28 pm

Zero second thoughts. MVC or bust. I see us being highly competitive right off the bat. If we ever want to better the program as a whole, it's not going to be in the OVC. The OVC is now one of the bottom third in conferences. MVC or bust.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by bjhracer » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:55 pm

02Racer wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:16 pm
The OVC tournament format is a major advantage over the MVC, IMO.
I don’t think the format would have mattered this year. We would be in regardless, even with another loss we would be on the inside of the bubble with a 5 loss team from a top 12 conference.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by JoeD » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:18 pm

Good point, RL. being one of the two best teams in the Southland, SWAC, MEAC, or Big West doesn't appeal to me either, no matter how "easy" the path to the NCAA tournament is.


How bad is it, you ask?

Currently, according to Nolan, the OVC is the 23rd best conference in CBB. For some perspective, that is behind basketball powerhouse conferences like the Big West, whose highest NET team is the mighty Anteaters of UC Irvine. Also ahead of the current iteration of the OVC, the Big South, the ASUN, the Patriot League, and the Big South.

Where does Murray State fit into this? Well with a NET of 43, Here is where the Racers would sit (and why that matters)

Big South- 1st
Big West- 1st
Horizon- 1st
A Sun- 1st
Patriot- 1st
Colonial- 1st
Sun Belt- 1st
WAC- 1st
MVC- 1st
CUSA- 1st
Ivy- 1st

Mac- 2nd
Pac 12- 2nd
West Coast- 3rd
American- 4th
A10- 2nd
Big East- 3rd
SEC- 6th
ACC- 7th
Big Ten- 6th

Why does that matter?

These conferences are all ahead of the OVC, but not ahead of the Racers. And that is with the Racers playing the likes of TTU (NET 331 out of 352) twice. What would it be in the MVC? I would posit that it would look a lot like Wofford (NET 14).

So no, I have had no second thoughts about a move to the MVC.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by MarshallRacer » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:21 pm

Not a second thought. The bottom HALF of the OVC is ranked approx 300 or worse in the NET. They always will be whatever the metric you use or prefer. Sinking ship.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by RacerLegacy84 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:23 pm

Have never supported a move...nor will I. Sometimes folks on here forget that there are other sports at Murray State - most having great success on their designated field/court. Aside from the initial cost to move conferences, annual budgets don't even compare - SIUC vs MSU. Travel costs/time and fairness to our student athletes (time on a charter bus) is enough not to move. Yes, basketball is the big brother here but there are other teams that dance just as much if not more than the men's basketball team (I have not fact checked just generalizing). But the MVC has not been the same since Creighton and Wichita left. And right now, financially for MSU...should not even be on the table for discussion. My opinion. It's ok if you disagree.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:29 pm

RacerLegacy84 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:23 pm
Have never supported a move...nor will I. Sometimes folks on here forget that there are other sports at Murray State - most having great success on their designated field/court. Aside from the initial cost to move conferences, annual budgets don't even compare - SIUC vs MSU. Travel costs/time and fairness to our student athletes (time on a charter bus) is enough not to move. Yes, basketball is the big brother here but there are other teams that dance just as much if not more than the men's basketball team (I have not fact checked just generalizing). But the MVC has not been the same since Creighton and Wichita left. And right now, financially for MSU...should not even be on the table for discussion. My opinion. It's ok if you disagree.
I see your point, but the reality is that football and basketball prop up the entire athletic department. I'd venture a guess as to say that basketball alone props up the entire athletic department. The travel costs would surely increase, but in the long run, so would revenue from basketball and would probably even out. And yes, the MVC hasn't been the same since Creighton and WSU left, but the MVC is still a highly ranked conference. With Murray in it, it goes higher, imo. Of course, none of this matters because I don't see the MVC Prize Patrol van pulling up to the CFSB Center with flowers and a giant invitation.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by smidge34 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:35 pm

I’ve never believed in the tail wagging the dog.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by A_1985_grad » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:38 pm

No, no second thoughts. Still not sure why the Lords of the MVC aren't interested, they're only hurting themselves. Did they not notice the LARGE Racer following in Evansville? Do that not realize that this is every year and growing? Or are they so ignorant that they think Murray State is ONLY a Ja Morant one-year phenomenon?

As far as the other sports, with the exception of football, the Racer program fits in well competitively with the MVC. We won't be bottom dwellers by any means. And football isn't even in the MVC, as the football membership plays in a separate league.

Maybe the travel is longer, but ask Jacksonville State or Eastern Illinois about travel. Can't see how it would be that big of a problem.

And, as was pointed out, you can't make these decisions based on inconveniencing a non-revenue sports team. You have to spend (invest) money to make money; it's just the way it is if you want to grow these days. And there's little evidence that the OVC wants (or knows how) to grow.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by racerlover » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:43 pm

Could we not stay in the OVC only in football? Didn't wku do that for a few years?
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by smidge34 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:47 pm

No the OVC wouldn’t let them, they were butthurt over that for years and harbored a heckuva grudge vs us and the OVC ever since, not that we’ve ever liked each other.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by murraygrad05 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:31 pm

I have no doubt we need to do something, whether it be the MVC or another suitor that presents itself a better opportunity.

Would you want to stay employed, for example, in a place where your head is smacking against the ceiling with no room for any way up the ladder or expansion? Or if a better opportunity came along with more of a ceiling to grow and more opportunity for expansion, would you still want to stay stuck in the place you are?

Some things to keep in mind:
I've seen the argument on the web that we would get more recognition if not for our competition. A team like Michigan St., or North Carolina, or any perennial leader of a P5 conference will never schedule us. Why? Because they know we can play with them and they might come out with a big L. That L is triple intensified because they also know there is a chance at this point in time, in this conference that we may lose to a sub 250 team. Even though we are a great team and can play with any team in the country, it is a lose-lose. Some of you have been griping about the level of competition that we play. You can't control the teams you have to play in conference. With the Big 10 going to a 20 game league schedule, and also having 1 or 2 games scheduled for them by ESPN (Big 10 vs ACC challenge for example) that leaves very few games for little dogs and they are not going to waste those. This kinda explains why hopefully.

In the MVC, there is not a chance for a sub 250 loss unless it gets much worse. P5 teams will pay more attention to a SOS and a loss to us does not sting as bad. The payout from the conference is also substantially more and so ALL sports, not just basketball or football, will benefit greatly. The travel time, except for maybe UNI and Mo St., are about the same as what we have now compared to travel time to JSU and Eastern Kentucky or EIU.

As I've said before, if the BOR have researched this and found that it is a possible move, I trust them. I understand in the economic state we are in that it might make you hesitant. But it has been looked at I'm sure with a fine tooth comb. We tend to recruit more students from the MVC controlled region also. Students are not wanting to go to school in Illinois because that state truly is bankrupt. SIU-C is a good example of the state it is in. I know a lot of alumni in the St. Louis area and have also made many friends while in Murray from there.

I just think :twocents: the benefits far outweigh the downfalls.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by SoILRacer » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:45 pm

No.

However, I do feel badly for the MVC. They could have had Ja Morant and the Murray State Racer$. Instead, they settled for the Valparaiso Crusaders and their glorified high school gymnasium. #Ouch

We will just have to keep kicking MVC asses and taking names on the court, whether they want us in their league or not. What is our record against the MVC the past several years anyway? I know it’s pretty dominant.
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Re: Anybody else having 2nd thoughts on joining Missouri valley conf?

Post by mojoliet » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:13 am

There wouldn’t be any FB issue (except maybe a one year lag). North Dakota joins as #11 in 2020, so a #12 is needed. WIU/Youngstown/MVC schools wouldn’t admit another Dakota school unless a handshake deal was made for Dakota schools to return the favor in greenlighting a non-Dakota school.

Talked to many people in STL who want Murray in and filling the seats. Everyone was cheering you guys at the hotel bar. There were Murray signs at the games.

I have no clue what the MVC office holdup is other than 11 is off the table and they don’t deem any 12 worthy. Wish they’d see what everyone else sees. If they did, it would’ve made the MVC money hand over fist this year.

Valpo will be fine. Hired wrong coach.
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