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Eku troubles

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msuowns
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by msuowns » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:52 pm

smidge34 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:33 am
See owns it seems as though you are mad at the teachers and imo that is misplaced. I don’t blame them for wanting what was promised to them. In fact, I blame us all from the kick the can down the road then not invest the appropriate $ from day 1 Governors and legislators to the electorate who kept sending them back to the lack of personal oversight by the teachers and teachers’ groups. We are all culpable to varying degrees and the only thing left is to wait and see how it all plays out. It’s a big steaming dinner plate full of BS and everyone gets to take a bite.
The state of Tenn. pension is funded 90%. Now let's see which political party has dominated Ky. For decades. Which group of politicians plundered the teacher's pensions? But they still love them. The money isn't there, but they are pissed and want it anyway. What about so many Ky. Workers that don't have decent health ins? Not even talking about all the other benefits they have. Teachers could careless about all the workers who sacrifice so they can subsidize a teacher's job, huge benefits, early retirement and ins for the rest of their lives.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by smidge34 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:08 pm

I don’t personally believe the pension crises has a political party attached to it, as it was plundered under both R and D Governors and R and D state senate majorities. There’s blame o’plenty to go around but that won’t fix things and neither will snide and frankly ignorant remarks by our Governor that only serve to divide. I get his frustration but you can’t be a douchebag like that and serve the citizens effectively. I also get all state employees with a stake in the pension system. I’d want mine too, but I do not want to see it through higher taxes on working Kentucky families.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by jhughes42071 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:15 pm

msuowns wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:24 am
teachers have 5 x the benefits we have. They have excellent pay and can retire in their early 50's and get a much bigger pension than ss. They don have to wait till 72 to get the best payout. Lifetime ins. Many of us who subsidize their lives, have very lil ins. They love to manipulate using the "child" angle. Decades of spoiled liberism. The degree takes an average IQ to get. These people aren't rocket scientist,they should get specialized compensation. They do love u for subsidizing their lucratice jobs tho. Same with MSO profs and many msu fatcats. liberalism at its worst.

I'd expect teachers to get a bigger pension than they would on Social Security. They pay in around 13% of their income to insure that. SS takes what 6% with a government match of 6%. So without any degree of match from the government they are already saving more than your SS account does.

5 times the benefits is incredibly hyperbolic.

Excellent pay(maybe if compared to entry level jobs) not if compared against their private sector equivalents. i.e. Master's degree.

As far as the rest of this post it sounds like a lot of sour grapes. If it's that easy and they have it so good you should go back to school to get a job in education. However I'd say it takes a whole lot more than an average IQ to get there. Also might check to see if there are any outstanding updates for your spellchecker.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by msuowns » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:59 am

jhughes42071 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:15 pm
msuowns wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:24 am
teachers have 5 x the benefits we have. They have excellent pay and can retire in their early 50's and get a much bigger pension than ss. They don have to wait till 72 to get the best payout. Lifetime ins. Many of us who subsidize their lives, have very lil ins. They love to manipulate using the "child" angle. Decades of spoiled liberism. The degree takes an average IQ to get. These people aren't rocket scientist,they should get specialized compensation. They do love u for subsidizing their lucratice jobs tho. Same with MSO profs and many msu fatcats. liberalism at its worst.

I'd expect teachers to get a bigger pension than they would on Social Security. They pay in around 13% of their income to insure that. SS takes what 6% with a government match of 6%. So without any degree of match from the government they are already saving more than your SS account does.

5 times the benefits is incredibly hyperbolic.

Excellent pay(maybe if compared to entry level jobs) not if compared against their private sector equivalents. i.e. Master's degree.

As far as the rest of this post it sounds like a lot of sour grapes. If it's that easy and they have it so good you should go back to school to get a job in education. However I'd say it takes a whole lot more than an average IQ to get there. Also might check to see if there are any outstanding updates for your spellchecker.
one of the biggest benefits they get is a job for life. So you think the private sector can compete with that? Ive seen so many of my past employers lay off, leave town, close the doors, etc. Over 50k a year in a state that has cheap living is very lucrative. A master's degree in education is not rocket science. There are plenty of people in Ky. with a masters and not making in the 50's. The teacher's have a very lucrative career in this state, thanks to the worker's that subsidize it for them. The Democrats have dominated the politics in Ky. for a long time, everyone should know that. Since the can has been licked down the road for so long, the first gov to man up and not kick the can down the road gets this reaction from the spoiled teachers. wow that's a shocker. The money isn't there teachers, but your greed is.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by Tick21 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:38 am

I guess I'm one of those spoiled teachers. LOL. I'm also a Republican. I understand changes must be made, but don't lay all this at the teachers' feet. It's not their fault the retirement system has been underfunded for years (money which went somewhere else). What happen to all that money which was suppose to go to education when the lottery became legal in Kentucky? Owns, I can promise you none of it ended up in my pocket.

I admire the governor for tackling the problem (which he didn't create, nor did the teachers by the way), but he doesn't have to act like a horses' caboose when someone disagrees with him. He certainly gives the impression he doesn't like teachers and/or possibly public education.

Owns, your not the first or the last which will complain about paying the cost for teachers and public education, but let me explain the biggest problem when you start to take away a guaranteed retirement system. My Father paid for my college education, and he didn't want me to go into teaching for one simple fact: They didn't make enough money for what a college education costs. I disagreed, and was more concerned with doing something in life that I liked over making a lot of money. But I digress, I've already run across young college students who were going to go into the field of education, but based on the future uncertainty of pay and benefits, they are going into something else. So while you may not give a rats' behind about teachers' and their whining, you might want to be concerned about the future quality of education. There may be a lot more average IQ's or less teaching your children and grandchildren.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by jhughes42071 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:24 pm

msuowns wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:59 am
one of the biggest benefits they get is a job for life. So you think the private sector can compete with that? Ive seen so many of my past employers lay off, leave town, close the doors, etc. Over 50k a year in a state that has cheap living is very lucrative. A master's degree in education is not rocket science. There are plenty of people in Ky. with a masters and not making in the 50's. The teacher's have a very lucrative career in this state, thanks to the worker's that subsidize it for them. The Democrats have dominated the politics in Ky. for a long time, everyone should know that. Since the can has been licked down the road for so long, the first gov to man up and not kick the can down the road gets this reaction from the spoiled teachers. wow that's a shocker. The money isn't there teachers, but your greed is.
If a Master's degree in education is so easy and if the career is so lucrative and the benefits so amazing why isn't there a glut of teachers in the market for jobs? Beyond that a Master's Degree is REQUIRED. What other job hires someone with a Bachelor's degree and says "hey if you don't get a masters you won't keep this job?"

I watched my wife get a Master's degree in Education. I got my MBA. I'm unwilling to say either was exceptionally hard or exceptionally easy. However neither was cheap.

Now lets do some math. If a teacher is required to put in 12ish% of their salary into their pension yearly and their average salary is 50,000 that means they are responsible for 6,000 per year into retirement. The state is supposed to match this but that isn't happening. Some may complain at the amount that the state must give so lets back that up to what they would have to match if they were paying social security on the teachers. If memory serves me correctly the employer responsibility for SS is around 6%. That's another 3,000 yearly into a retirement account. That's 9,000 per year into a retirement account whether it's pension or not. Assuming a 6% ROI that should leave around 20 years worth of drawing funds at 85% of their income level if they start teaching at 22 and retire at 55. Not too shabby for only fulfilling those funding requirements at a base level.

Now remove those teachers from a pension system and put them into a 401k type scenario. Not only will the state be responsible for kicking in 6% for Social Security, they will have to kick in an employer 401k match around 3-4% just to keep up with the market unless the intention is to hire the dregs of society. They'll also need to increase their pay scales because now the "biggest benefit of the job" is gone. With a shortage of qualified educators in they system as it sets, decreasing their benefits will certainly not increase the quality of employees.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by smidge34 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:33 pm

At the end of the day the state will wind up having to pay a competitive, supply and demand, market driven wage if they want quality educators like they should have been doing from day 1 instead of promising back-end compensation like the guaranteed pension after 27 years. They kicked the can down the road, stole the contributions and now the question is who is gonna pay now that the bills are mounting? This is a bipartisan issue and it would be ignorant to attempt to make it about political affiliation. People were promised a pension for their service by our elected representatives both R and D and those same representatives stole the money and we kept sending them back to Frankfort. By that point of view we are all culpable. I’m afraid this will wind up in the hands of a bankruptcy judge before it’s all said and done. It will certainly be interesting.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by msuowns » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:43 pm

Tick21 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:38 am
I guess I'm one of those spoiled teachers. LOL. I'm also a Republican. I understand changes must be made, but don't lay all this at the teachers' feet. It's not their fault the retirement system has been underfunded for years (money which went somewhere else). What happen to all that money which was suppose to go to education when the lottery became legal in Kentucky? Owns, I can promise you none of it ended up in my pocket.

I admire the governor for tackling the problem (which he didn't create, nor did the teachers by the way), but he doesn't have to act like a horses' caboose when someone disagrees with him. He certainly gives the impression he doesn't like teachers and/or possibly public education.

Owns, your not the first or the last which will complain about paying the cost for teachers and public education, but let me explain the biggest problem when you start to take away a guaranteed retirement system. My Father paid for my college education, and he didn't want me to go into teaching for one simple fact: They didn't make enough money for what a college education costs. I disagreed, and was more concerned with doing something in life that I liked over making a lot of money. But I digress, I've already run across young college students who were going to go into the field of education, but based on the future uncertainty of pay and benefits, they are going into something else. So while you may not give a rats' behind about teachers' and their whining, you might want to be concerned about the future quality of education. There may be a lot more average IQ's or less teaching your children and grandchildren.
I layed all of this at the teacher's feet? Only problem I have with the spoiled babies that are crying, marching, protesting is, seems they don't know the fiscal world has changed. We aren't in the post war manufacturing boom where we had a huge tax base from high paying jobs. Our liberal post high education system is collapsing in front of our eyes. What cuts are they willing to make to save their jobs? It's all about students has always been garbage. It's about me me me. A former student they meet on the street during their retirement, won't even buy them a dinner. It's the 40 year retirement check is what their concern is. Has somebody told the teacher's, the money isn't there? Cuts will have to be made. But don't worry because the tax payer will always be there to coddle you thru life, even if u retire at 52. The greed is what gets me.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by jhughes42071 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:07 pm

^Can't argue with that logic.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by msuowns » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:07 pm

Tick21 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:38 am
I guess I'm one of those spoiled teachers. LOL. I'm also a Republican. I understand changes must be made, but don't lay all this at the teachers' feet. It's not their fault the retirement system has been underfunded for years (money which went somewhere else). What happen to all that money which was suppose to go to education when the lottery became legal in Kentucky? Owns, I can promise you none of it ended up in my pocket.

I admire the governor for tackling the problem (which he didn't create, nor did the teachers by the way), but he doesn't have to act like a horses' caboose when someone disagrees with him. He certainly gives the impression he doesn't like teachers and/or possibly public education.

Owns, your not the first or the last which will complain about paying the cost for teachers and public education, but let me explain the biggest problem when you start to take away a guaranteed retirement system. My Father paid for my college education, and he didn't want me to go into teaching for one simple fact: They didn't make enough money for what a college education costs. I disagreed, and was more concerned with doing something in life that I liked over making a lot of money. But I digress, I've already run across young college students who were going to go into the field of education, but based on the future uncertainty of pay and benefits, they are going into something else. So while you may not give a rats' behind about teachers' and their whining, you might want to be concerned about the future quality of education. There may be a lot more average IQ's or less teaching your children and grandchildren.
I do give teacher's credit for being able to work with young people and losing it. Not everyone can deal with some misbehaving kids and I'm one. Kudos there.
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Re: Eku troubles

Post by msuowns » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:08 pm

msuowns wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:07 pm
Tick21 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:38 am
I guess I'm one of those spoiled teachers. LOL. I'm also a Republican. I understand changes must be made, but don't lay all this at the teachers' feet. It's not their fault the retirement system has been underfunded for years (money which went somewhere else). What happen to all that money which was suppose to go to education when the lottery became legal in Kentucky? Owns, I can promise you none of it ended up in my pocket.

I admire the governor for tackling the problem (which he didn't create, nor did the teachers by the way), but he doesn't have to act like a horses' caboose when someone disagrees with him. He certainly gives the impression he doesn't like teachers and/or possibly public education.

Owns, your not the first or the last which will complain about paying the cost for teachers and public education, but let me explain the biggest problem when you start to take away a guaranteed retirement system. My Father paid for my college education, and he didn't want me to go into teaching for one simple fact: They didn't make enough money for what a college education costs. I disagreed, and was more concerned with doing something in life that I liked over making a lot of money. But I digress, I've already run across young college students who were going to go into the field of education, but based on the future uncertainty of pay and benefits, they are going into something else. So while you may not give a rats' behind about teachers' and their whining, you might want to be concerned about the future quality of education. There may be a lot more average IQ's or less teaching your children and grandchildren.
I do give teacher's credit for being able to work with young people and losing it. Not everyone can deal with some misbehaving kids and I'm one. Kudos there.
Oh I read in the Paducah sun today about 1.5 billion of the pension money was lost in a risky hedge fund
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